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    Yeah, it took my about 6 months to get past the MOR polish, into the dark heart of the Dan.

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      Originally posted by WOM View Post
      It's not the jazz noodly part that turns me off. It's the schmaltzy lyrics. They don't just sound like they were written for elevators, but in elevators. I mean, could Rikki Don't... be any more tepid? What's their best album, if I wanted to give them a go, like?
      We've had the WOM 'Steely Dan/schmaltz' issue before, eh?

      https://www.onetouchfootball.com/sho...cc-Story/page3

      As I said back there (two years ago this week, OTFact fans), this really is not a workable definition of 'schmaltz'. The latter (in musical context) represents the sentimental, the saccharine, the mawkish - the musical equivalent of a 'weepie' movie, perhaps. Steely Dan's output might often be polished and produced, but the lyrics really aren't...hold on, I've done this.

      I'd say go with Pretzel Logic, The Royal Scam, Aja...but I don't think this is going to be for you. One either gets the Dan, or one doesn't.

      Originally posted by WOM View Post
      Excellent news. I like her already.
      Why, thank you. And yes, she's lovely.

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        Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
        I despised Steely Dan and their jazz chords for months while I was subjected to their music in a flat share. Now they seem eternal, indispensable. It’s hard to imagine how violently my ears reacted to this cheesy smoothness. I had to hear the waspish as fuck lyrics, get lost in the stories, before I really got it.

        More straight-ahead SFA sampled Showbiz Kids helped acclimatize me to them as well.
        Yes, I was exactly the same. "Too clever by half" was my long-standing belief, until I realised it wasn't necessarily a bad thing.

        Also the Dan are the only band both my father and I like (he being a dyed-in-the-wool jazz fan), so at least we can go to gigs together (at least to see Nearly Dan, rather than Fagan & Co.).

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          That's pretty much the only gig I'd be likely to attend with my sister - as indeed we did last month at the Jazz Cafe. Much fun it was, too.

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            I suspect I just have to give up. I'm genuinely excited to hear the genius that many others hear, but I can't. I just hear 'tunes to polish teeth by'.

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              Can has been an interesting experience though. Some neat ideas being explored there.

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                I can see why one night feel that Steely Dan's music is lacking in soul, but the musicianship is worth exploring. For example, there is a joy in listening to "Aja" -- a song I don't particularly love -- simply for that drum track by Steve Gadd. In fact, on all of Aja, listen to the drumming.

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                  Steely Dan have some really funky music that I enjoy, but more than the lyrics I've just never been able to get on with the sound of the singer's voice. I'm not sure why, it just totally puts me off wanting to listen to them.

                  Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbC__R24t0

                  India from Sun Ra. The electric piano reminds me of In a Silent Way, which must be a decade later than 56 at least. The future is (was) now. Really have been missing out, this is actually good stuff, not just a Bobby Gillespie/Mojo/Uncut prescribed idea of what’s good.
                  1969.

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                    Frank Zappa.

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                      I find it odd - and I say this as a dyed-in-the-wool, I'll-kill-you-if-you-diss-Geddy-Lee Rush fan - that WOM can't find anything to like in Steely Dan's sheer musicianship and songwriting craft, given that it's more or less what everyone's favourite Torontonians are grudgingly admired for.

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                        Originally posted by mr smith View Post
                        Frank Zappa.
                        Best to keep it that way, mr smith, barring Willie the Pimp (which is all about the Beefheart vocal and whoever is playing the violin). Never trust a teetotal Muso.

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                          With respect, Spoony, that's insane gibberish.

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                            Possibly so TG, wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been accused of such either on this board (though for once I don’t think Scotch syntax is to blame). I should like Zappa, but he just seems a musical cunt to me. A pity, cos the descriptions sound like a white Funkadelic. But the fucking music sounds like Steve Wright’s idea of P-Funk unfortunately. And the humour, oh dear. Moving to Montana, never eat the yellow snow, makes my teeth itch.
                            Last edited by Lang Spoon; 23-12-2017, 22:30.

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                              I never hated the Mothers but I couldn't really warm to them either. Zappa's pretentiousness grated a bit, but mainly it was the type of audience they drew back in the day. Too many of them didn't really like rock/pop at all, but seemed to think being a Mothers fan gave them access to the zeitgeist. Tom Waits began his mumbling stage persona to get them to shut up when he was playing (he had the same manager as the Mothers and was sent out as their opening act.)

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                                Originally posted by Toby Gymshorts View Post
                                I find it odd - and I say this as a dyed-in-the-wool, I'll-kill-you-if-you-diss-Geddy-Lee Rush fan - that WOM can't find anything to like in Steely Dan's sheer musicianship and songwriting craft, given that it's more or less what everyone's favourite Torontonians are grudgingly admired for.
                                No more birthday greeting for you, weirdo. But G-Man hit the nail nicely a few posts up when he says 'lack of soul'. To me, SD sound like '70s over-produced FM muck. There's no there there. It's perfectly....fine. Meh. I have no clue what comparison you're trying to make with Rush, who (IMHO) fire on all cylinders.

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                                  As for the sheer musicianship thing, it doesn't interest me in the least. Technical proficiency is bupkis compared to a bit of anger or some desire to express an idea. I love the rawness of The Fall and the messiness of Fucked Up. There are tons of proficient musicians, Toto among them. Ever gotten excited over Toto?

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                                    I'll be honest, I lost the thread of what I meant. I'm so sorry <sobs>.

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                                      Spoony's still well wide of the mark about Zappa though.

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                                        Probably so. I like Peaches and Regalia as well I suppose. But most of his stuff brings out a visceral reaction for me like WOM has with Steely Dan.

                                        Wingco’s Reaper takedown of Zappa speaks for me, even if he didn’t really mean it.

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                                          I had a really good explanation lined up for WOM, but then I went off and had a steak and a couple of glasses of red and then I lost the thread.

                                          Anyway.

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                                            Now I’ve got Peaches and Regalia stuck in my head and no headphones packed that might help me rid myself of this turbulent earworm. I blame Toby for whatever my lack of sleep might cause.

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                                              Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                              As for the sheer musicianship thing, it doesn't interest me in the least. Technical proficiency is bupkis compared to a bit of anger or some desire to express an idea. I love the rawness of The Fall and the messiness of Fucked Up. There are tons of proficient musicians, Toto among them. Ever gotten excited over Toto?
                                              Fuckin a. It was probably the smooth musicianship thing that took me so long to get through the jazz chord barrier and learn to love The Dan. Songs like Winter, Fiery Jack, Repetition, I’m into CB!, or Wings from The Fall, they sound so perfect it would be unimaginable to think of them played by proficient musicians, or sung by someone technically competent-ah.

                                              But then it’s the juxtaposition between smooth MOR grooves and the less accomplished vocals (when it’s not Mr McDonald etc) that really makes Steely Dan for me I think. The Muzaky Show-off backing tracks would be unbearable without the nasal whine of Donald Fagen (and the vicious pitliless lyrics), in the same way Bob Dylan would have been shite if he could “sing properly”.

                                              But still, I guess there’s about as much chance of turning WOM onto something accessible and not totally cheesy like Kid Charlemagne or Hey Nineteen as me suddenly sticking “Roll the Bones” on repeat play.
                                              Last edited by Lang Spoon; 24-12-2017, 02:27.

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                                                Spoony's got me neck-deep in Can at the mo'. What a trip. Takes some work, but worth it.

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                                                  Nice one WOM. Have you downloaded the Ege Bam Yasi lp yet? Lovely stuff. Have a very soft spot for the earlier song Uphill as well. Sounds like Northern Soul having a nervous breakdown, with White Light/White Heat VU playing the backing track.

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                                                    Not sure how many times - or in how many ways - it needs to be expressed here, but their 'musicianship' is not what made Steely Dan great.

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