"Me, too".

[Fussbudget]

But complimenting something a person chose - haircut, shirt, tattoo, hat, sunglasses, whatever - as opposed to their body, is rarely a bad idea, I don’t think. It’s complementing their taste and can lead to an interesting conversation about travel or any number of things.

Yes, I think that distinction is spot on. Talking about that stuff is very rarely inappropriate, whereas colleagues or strangers passing comments on your legs or whatever always comes across as totally creepy, even if meant innocently.

[Flynnie]

I work with a lot of fashionista coworkers, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that one was talking about something different than "Love the Les-Mis-meets-Ramones look, Jess"*.


*that's a real sentence, and Jess's face lit up as she said "That's exactly the look I was going for!" I work with good people, man.

[Flynnie]

A different online forum we have in common has been pretty depressing today.

I got why people were a little skeptical, but...keep your own counsel. Especially as it turned out to be true.

[Hot Pepsi]

To ad hoc’s point...

I do that, though for me it’s usually coming from a good place. I want to affirm everyone - like I’m a congregant hearing a sermon in an AME Church - or feel compelled to keep the discussion away from awkward pauses by always “yes-anding” them, to use the comedy term, and bring that part of the conversation to a positive conclusion.

Like if somebody is telling me about a shitty experience they had, I feel compelled to try to get them to see a possible silver lining. I mean well, but it can come off like I’m trying to fix them rather than listen. It took a 17-year-old girl calling me out on that for me to see it clearly. So now I’m more aware.

[Hot Pepsi]

I work with a lot of fashionista coworkers, and I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that one was talking about something different than "Love the Les-Mis-meets-Ramones look, Jess"*.


*that's a real sentence, and Jess's face lit up as she said "That's exactly the look I was going for!" I work with good people, man.

That sounds really cool. I’m picturing a long military-ish coat over tight black ripped jeans, a t-shirt, and black boots.

[Fussbudget]

I think the notion is that women are perceived to talk "too much" whenever they talk, basically. There are studies showing that when women speak any more than 30% of the time in a meeting/conversation, the men in the group significantly overestimate that proportion and think that the women did most/all of the talking.

[Flynnie]

That sounds really cool. I’m picturing a long military-ish coat over tight black ripped jeans, a t-shirt, and black boots.

You got it, along with a beret and the t-shirt being Breton.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Isn't there a popular negative stereotype of women that they talk too much and that men are more economical or taciturn? Is it supposed to depend on the context?

Popular negative stereotypes are 10 a penny, they even make the world go round.

One thing I've noticed over the years, as a man, is that men in general have this pathetic tendency to have an answer (and solution) for everything, even on things they know sod all about. And the bigger the crowd the more "knowledgeable" they want to appear to be. Instead of humbly replying "I don't know", "I'm not sure" etc. too many men love to prattle on something/subjects they've never/not seriously thought about or understood in depth, at best. Men should learn that it's OK to be ignorant on many subjects, it's OK to have doubts and enormous gaps in one's knowledge etc. Maybe then they would be inclined to talk less. Men need to listen far more.

But then again, people in general are rather poor at communicating; there is a lot of fear about and that seeps through in the way we communicate (our communication skills are nowhere near as good as we like to think they are...).

[Amor de Cosmos]

Harold Macmillan — in his dotage — made probably the only profound comment in his life. Asked what advice he'd give young politicians he replied, "Acquire the courage to say 'I don't know.'"

[Hot Pepsi]

You got it, along with a beret and the t-shirt being Breton.

I wish I could pull something like that off.

[Patrick Thistle]

My take on #NotAllMen is that it's the same as #YesSomeMen. So anyone saying it is conceding there is a problem even though they don't really know that.

[Hot Pepsi]

Popular negative stereotypes are 10 a penny, they even make the world go round.

One thing I've noticed over the years, as a man, is that men in general have this pathetic tendency to have an answer (and solution) for everything, even on things they know sod all about. And the bigger the crowd the more "knowledgeable" they want to appear to be. Instead of humbly replying "I don't know", "I'm not sure" etc. too many men love to prattle on something/subjects they've never/not seriously thought about or understood in depth, at best. Men should learn that it's OK to be ignorant on many subjects, it's OK to have doubts and enormous gaps in one's knowledge etc. Maybe then they would be inclined to talk less. Men need to listen far more.

But then again, people in general are rather poor at communicating; there is a lot of fear about and that seeps through in the way we communicate (our communication skills are nowhere near as good as we like to think they are...).

I like to ask a lot of questions. But, like Charlie Rose, sometimes my preamble is too long.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Yes, I think that distinction is spot on. Talking about that stuff is very rarely inappropriate, whereas colleagues or strangers passing comments on your legs or whatever always comes across as totally creepy, even if meant innocently.

This is pretty good advice in general, whether you're having an argument with someone, or talking to a small child. What you do, or how you behave is up for discussion, but things you are basically born with like hair colour, skin colour, sex, sexual preferences, age, country of origin, or appearance aren't.

I'm seeing an awful lot of my friends on facebook saying this, and I wish I was surprised, and to be honest I kind of assume that most of the others could probably say this, but aren't for their own reasons. this is something that my parents would have made us very aware of growing up, and it was only much later that I found out why.

[Bored Of Education]

You got it, along with a beret and the t-shirt being Breton.

Ych a fi, sounds like Coldplay's last photo shoot.

[Bored Of Education]

I work in a field that is overwhelmingly female dominated (in numbers - I'd estimate something like 80:20),but - surprise-very male at the top and in its celebrities (such as celebrity is in my world). Recently I have attended a number of female led meetings and discussions about this disparity, and it has been useful and educational to me. At a number of points in these meetings I have felt an urgent desire to contribute to the discussion (I imagined usefully) but in each case decided not to, reasoning that my best contribution was to listen and act in future if there seemed to be a way to do that. In doing so I have also become very conscious of how many men did talk and get involved (again I would estimate attendance at these meetings at something like 80/90:20/10, but female /male contributions at around 50/50. Christ we never fucking shut up do we? Seriously. It's been very eye opening

Actually, that is interesting. I hadn't actually thought about how working in a female-dominated profession is really different. I am trying to think of a particular way and the best way I can think is that dialogue isn't competitive. There doesn't seem to be that "I am only listening to your point to a certain degree, after which I am moulding my next utterance in a way so as to top what you are talking about" which happen in male-dominated contexts. I mean, I do it all the time but that is probably because I am a self-regarding, self-obsessed, mouthy twat. Other men in teaching don't appear to. They aren't, in any way, cowed by women. Perhaps men who go into teaching - aside from me - are more in tune with female communication beforehand or become used to how dialogue works in female-dominated communication. Obviously, there is bullying in female-dominated workplaces - well, teaching - against both genders but I have never heard of and certainly have never witnessed or experienced any sexual abuse or harassment.

[Amor de Cosmos]

FWIW most of my classes have forever been overwhelmingly female — usually around 5/1. For that reason there's never been a problem with women speaking up. This semester it's a little different. A small class (eight students, five women, three men.) I've had more trouble generating discussion than ever before. The men are more verbal — though not excessively so. The women though barely say a word. There are several reasons probably, the first is that they're all international students (the men aren't) so, though they're all fluent, English isn't their first language. They also aren't all in the same program, so there's no cohort security. Tomorrow they have to do class presentations and I'm hoping that'll finally break the ice a bit. I'm getting tired of listening to the sound of my own voice.

[Bored Of Education]

I don't really understand the concept of that last sentence.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Heh. My Dad reckoned it was one of my favourite hobbies.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Yeah, it's been a learning experience for me. I should've spent more time doing warm-up introductions in the first week to loosen things up. Next year my classes become requirements in a new program, so the student mix will be be even more varied. I'll need to work on my prep skills big time.

[Nefertiti2]

[QUOTE=Bruno;1358070]You sly moose.


You see even that remark, meant entirely innocently I'm sure goes some way to sexualise, or at least gender the teaching space.

[Femme Folle]

Harold Macmillan — in his dotage — made probably the only profound comment in his life. Asked what advice he'd give young politicians he replied, "Acquire the courage to say 'I don't know.'"

My boss says, "If you don’t know, then that's the best answer."

[Satchmo Distel]

The campus is gendered so it is not easy to ignore the fact that students are expressing their genders in class in how they dress, sit, speak and respond to course materials that are sometimes highly emotional and occasionally humorous.

But clearly a teacher should never ask, "As a woman, how do you feel about....?" The gender of the person asking or being required to answer a question should never be a factor in how the question is put.

If women and/or people of colour are not participating, it might be because their past education has involved being shut down or ignored by white male teachers. Or they might be wary of questions that lead to racial or gender discomfort. The way to counter that is to prove your nonracial non-gendered teaching style very early, so they know you are not going to be Mr Creepy or Mr Baiter.

[Nefertiti2]

because you think a male lecturer, most of whose classes are overwhelmingly female. is a "sly moose". Why "sly"

[Bruno]

I don't think that.

[Nefertiti2]

I can only go by what you write on here.