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The Downfall of Harvey Weinstein?

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    It had jumped the shark anyway, but Spacey comes out of this badly, having implied in his statement a conflation of gay and paedophile.

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      It was going to be cancelled anyway. It was not cancelled because of his announcement. That was misreported. Indeed, it JTS a while ago and it's impossible to take a show like that seriously in the current situation.

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        Christ even I knew about Spacey. He was notorious for chasing young men around the Old Vic when he was Artistic Director

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          You know that you are a New Yorker when

          you wonder why Reed referred to the Jewish Theological Seminary in this context . . .

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            Useful “scorecard” of the most prominent sleazeballs identified so far from Canada’s Chatelaine

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              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
              ...having implied in his statement a conflation of gay and paedophile.
              Odd question, but is it still considered paedophilia when the person is post-pubescent as opposed to pre? I mean, I know it's still illegal in the eyes of the law, but is it the same thing...er...sexually?

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                DSM-5 says it is not, but that is very much NOT the rule applied by the law or the general public.

                As always, it is instructive to recall that most of the frequent posters live in a country where mobs have conflated paediatricians with paedophiles
                Last edited by ursus arctos; 31-10-2017, 01:49.

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                  I took it as an academic question.

                  The term is often used in the UK in a way that has zero clinical basis.

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                    What the point is? I dunno. Paedophilia carries a very specific connotation; an adult being attracted to a pre-pubescent child. A 'perversion', if you will. Whereas being attracted to a post-pubescent teen / young adult sort of feels like something else. Bad judgement, for sure. But not really a perversion, per se.

                    I'm not saying a 26 year old (Spacey) should have put the make on a 14 year old, but paedophilia seems like an incorrect label for what it is.

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                      And if we're not allowed to ask certain questions or approach certain topics any more, I missed the memo. I sort of figured I could float that one without being thought a weirdo.

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                        WOM. I think the clinical term you are looking for is ephebophelia

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                          Netflix has suspended production on the current series of House of Cards "until further notice"

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                            "Until we see how many more reports come forth in the following week(s)."

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                              I'm uncomfortable with the idea of putting Spacey into the Weinstein basket. For one thing, he didn't use his position (in that instance) to abuse his power. He made a highly inappropriate advance on a minor which if successful would have been illegal. When the victim said no, Spacey accepted it, some clumsy attempts at persuasion aside. There is no defence for it, of course. And Spacey offers none other than inebriation. His apology appears genuine and sincere. It is far removed from the unrepentant serial offender Weinstein. And to put it into the Weinstein basket smacks a bit of homophobia. Of course, there are plenty of gay Hollywood people who have exploited and abuse and raped young men. These predators must be exposed, too.

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                                Well if the rumours of him chasing young theatre hands are true, he’s going to end up looking a bit of a sleazebag if anyone goes public. If he is accused of assault (even more if by folk then underage), then he’s in deep shit. I’m not really getting homophobia in the reporting of this, it was Spacey himself (clumsily at best) coming out on the back of this that seems to have got grief from LGBTI activists.
                                Last edited by Lang Spoon; 31-10-2017, 19:44.

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                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  WOM. I think the clinical term you are looking for is ephebophelia
                                  But note that the term denotes a strong preference for that age group, which is different from it being just one of many desires we randomly experience. I could get a fleeting buzz from seeing an attractive person of 14, which I instantly disregard. Spacey's condition, if it was ephebophilia, would have been a persistent desire, on the borderline of a sickness.

                                  This also goes way back to discussions about Oscar Wilde and where his particular movement drew the line. Sometimes Wilde qualifies as ephebophiliac and sometimes as normally gay. The parallel with Spacey might be how he abused his privileges to get access to a particular age group.

                                  Moreover as noted above the problem here is the age difference, not a moral objection to sex between teenagers of the same age. I imagine that someone cannot be an ephebophiliac if he himself is an adolescent, but I don't know at what age someone becomes old enough to be diagnosed as such.

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                                    Does it matter if he knew the kid was a kid? He was drunk. I could have been dark. Possible Trainspottinf situation. Maybe a factor. I’m not sure.

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                                      I’d say it will only matter if shown as repeated occurrences.

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                                        Originally posted by Bruno
                                        I think being attracted to a 14 year old, when you're 50-something, could be called perverse for social reasons anyway.
                                        Spacey was 26 at the time. Just in case his lawyers are perusing this page, like.

                                        There's been another accusation today, apparently.

                                        A few years ago in London I went to a play with a mate, and afterwards the director told us (he's good friends with my mate) that one of his friends had been told he'd be more likely to get a role, or get to stage his play, or something (I forget exactly) if he was willing to sleep with the Old Vic's artistic director. I think this suggestion was made by the artistic director himself. The offer wasn't taken up.

                                        The artistic director in question may or may not have been named on this thread (in case the lawyers of various former Old Vic artistic directors are reading this).

                                        (Have I hedged that all right, ursus?)

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                                          Latest alleged assault by Spacey was just last Summer

                                          https://www.boston.com/culture/enter...y-kevin-spacey

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                                            I have no brief for Spacey -- he seems a serial sexual harasser -- but a vague allegation by a third party on behalf of an unnamed person who is not ready to confirm that allegation should be treated with care. Of course, the woman making the allegation is a respected journalist, so she knows how far to go without provoking a letter from Spacey's letter.

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                                              His enthusiasms were well known around Dublin in the late 1990's when he was making the unfortunate Ordinary Decent Criminal. There didn't seem to be much call for a non consensual aspect, but that's not how these things work

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                                                A couple of other younger, male actors have come forward yesterday and today about Spacey. And the Old Vic has set up a third-party reporting line for people to register any bad experiences during his tenure there.

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                                                  Former New York Times and Washington Post

                                                  A number of the allegations related to his time at the NYT

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                                                    I find all this quite strange. Mainly because, in a general way, it's been common knowledge to anyone even on the extreme edge of the entertainment world forever. I mean, I was chased round my darkroom by an internationally renowned male dancer back in my salad days. I wrote it off as energetic propositioning, now it'd be harassment I suppose. The moral bar has changed certainly but I'm really not sure I was made for the times that are likely to be coming.

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