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Sending an offender down under? Ashes 2017-18

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    #51
    "The Reverend" shows the new mellow side to his character

    Australia’s David Warner promises ‘hatred’ and ‘war’ with England in Ashes

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-ashes-cricket

    Racist little piece of shit

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      #52
      Stokes investigation is progressing so slowly that I wonder if there is a chance he will still be in limbo when the series starts: https://www.geo.tv/latest/163096-pol...witness-appeal

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        #53
        Two men claim Stokes saved them from homophobic attack

        http://www.espn.co.uk/cricket/story/...ophobic-attack

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          #54
          The fact that this story stems from The Sun and comes so long after the fact makes it seem incredibly dubious. Not that it won’t still be effective, of course,

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            #55
            I don't know, I think you'd have to be pretty foolhardy to make up a story like that as a potential witness in a criminal trial.

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              #56
              It also doesn't get Stokes off the hook, as from the video it suggests his violence went far beyond what was necessary (in a legal sense).

              But for ECB PR purposes - "Stokes is an impulsive guy who went too far defending a gay couple" is a much better look than "Stokes is a violent thug".

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                #57
                Right back when it happened there was a story about Stokes and Hales were responding to a homophobic attack. I have no idea how true it is but it's not a story that's just appeared

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                  #58
                  The court could decide that the homophobic attack was just a pretext; an excuse to fly off the handle.

                  The tasteless joke about Katie Price's son might have been worth a ban anyway IMHO.
                  Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 28-10-2017, 12:00.

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                    #59
                    I don't think people or the law works that way, Satchmo.

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                      #60
                      I expressed it badly. The prosecution would have to show that the homophobic attack angle was bollocks, or that Stokes' response was grossly excessive and violently prolonged, even if the witnesses were sincere. If that's too high a hurdle to overcome, I dunno if the case will go forward.

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                        #61
                        The latter part is plausible, actions in self-defence and defence of others can only be proportionate to the threat, but the law also recognises that it can be difficult in the heat of the moment when you have started in self defence to realise that you have become the aggressor. But once you are attacking someone unarmed on the floor, say, it's pretty obvious that you have gone too far.

                        As long as the gay couple witnesses are credible then I don't see how a prosecution could succeed in saying that wasn't Stokes' motivation.

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                          #62
                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                          Right back when it happened there was a story about Stokes and Hales were responding to a homophobic attack. I have no idea how true it is but it's not a story that's just appeared
                          The story about the witnesses coming forward is the one I was dubious about the timing of.

                          I find it strange that after the incident was the main national story for many days some weeks ago (and there being two police appeals for the alleged witnesses/victims of homophobic abuse to come forward since) they suddenly do so now as the squad is set to leave and, seemingly, come forward to The Sun.

                          The fact that the original story was put about by Piers Moron (who got it from Stokes’ people) only adds to my scepticisim.
                          Last edited by Ray de Galles; 28-10-2017, 15:12.

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                            #63
                            What do you think happened?

                            They weren't there, or weren't involved and are about to perjure themselves for the sake of English cricket or the Sun?
                            That they were there and were involved, but only came forward now and weren't going to say anything until they were offered (presumably) cash by the Sun?

                            I don't think either is more plausible than that they didn't realise that the incident they were involved in had got to this stage. Loads of people are unaware of the news and police appeals.

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                              #64
                              How did they become aware now then?

                              I don’t know what happened, I don’t know if these guys’ story in The Sun is 100% true or not. There just seem to be enough factors to justify some scepticism.

                              I’m certainly a huge cynic in general but , to be honest, when I read about The Sun’s story a thought popped in to my head about the witnesses who came forward for Ched Evans’ retrial who were vital in his acquittal.

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                It also doesn't get Stokes off the hook, as from the video it suggests his violence went far beyond what was necessary (in a legal sense).

                                But for ECB PR purposes - "Stokes is an impulsive guy who went too far defending a gay couple" is a much better look than "Stokes is a violent thug".
                                Out of interest, if Stokes is charged and it goes to court, would it be a jury trial?

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                                  #66
                                  Would depend on what he was charged with, but probably not. It has to be a pretty bad assault to go to the Crown Court.

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                                    #67
                                    Steven Gerrard's affray trial was at Crown Court, and in my estimation that involved less violence (but with more people involved, hence the affray charge).

                                    If I recall correctly, Ian Botham's case also went to Crown Court after he and Scunny keeper Joe Neenan beat someone up outside Tiffany's, having chased him through the back streets.

                                    Both found not guilty, I'd say trial by jury is a sensible choice if you're a reasonably well known and liked sporting figure.

                                    As far as late witnesses go, some defendants have been known to hire private detectives to trace and interview witnesses (my brother-in-law's father worked for Woodgate/Bowyer in this capacity). Cynics might suggest that the brief of finding someone who was there could easily be expanded into finding someone who will say they were there.

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                                      #68
                                      22 days until the first test. Could be a really good series.

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                                        #69
                                        Worries over the fitness of Moeen and Finn somewhat assuaged by 50s for Malan, Vince, Stoneman and Ballance in warm up match.

                                        Torn over the worries re Finn - naturally sad for him if he can’t play, but he’s had so many chances that it feels natural to look elsewhere, and Overton is a decent replacement I think.

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                                          #70
                                          You can get 25-1 against Overton being England's top bowler of the series. Decent value.

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                                            #71
                                            Finn.

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                                              #72
                                              Tom Curran to replace him.

                                              Mitchell Starc took two hat tricks in a Shield match against Western Australia

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                                                #73
                                                Jake Ball now an injury doubt for the first test with an all ankle injury.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Bonus for England. Can't see Ball getting any wickets.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Woakes, a very important player if England are to do well on this trip, is ripping through Cricket Australia XI.

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