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Sacked Managers 2017/18

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    #51
    Karl Marginson has left FC United. Sad to see him go and sad because it was time. End of an era.

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      #52
      Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
      Ryan Giggs has declared an interest in the vacancies at Leicester and at Everton. Obviously still thinks jobs in the lower divisions are beneath him,the entitled twat.
      Dead eyed bastard will ruin some club soon though. Tranmere are still a barely within the confines of the law shambles, no? They’d have a celeb coach.

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        #53
        Who next at Rangers?

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41762385

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          #54
          Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
          Ryan Giggs has declared an interest in the vacancies at Leicester and at Everton. Obviously still thinks jobs in the lower divisions are beneath him,the entitled twat.

          If he thinks he so good, why doesn't he try managing Salford City instead? He is after all a joint owner!

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            #55
            Originally posted by Paul S View Post
            If he thinks he so good, why doesn't he try managing Salford City instead? He is after all a joint owner!
            He'd have to sack Anthony Johnson first, and that isn't a face-to-face meeting I'd want to be involved in.

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              #56
              Simon Grayson given the boot at Sunderland. The problems at that club go far, far deeper than the manager.

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                #57
                And with defending like this, it's no surprise

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                  #58
                  Was hoping Grayson would still be there Sunday when they come to us., but assistant has gone too and I reckon they'll leave it till the International break to get someone in.

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                    #59
                    I've got no particular beef with Grayson, but whenever a manager leaves a (relatively) stable job and club for a dysfunctional Giant Having A Nap, then they deserve the inevitable outcome.

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                      #60
                      Grayson had been sacked by both his clubs before Preston and his tactics at Sunderland were dire so it was wishful thinking that he had a prayer of being successful.

                      Their history since 1958 is a classic case of yo-yo club. 30 seasons in the 2nd tier versus 29 in the top flight. Even the Sky cash cow couldn't change that cycle.

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                        #61
                        Sunderland had one season in the third tier in the 80s, the only time they have dropped to that level. To date...
                        Does that make it 29+30+1 or 29+29+1?

                        That the Premiership cash cow didn't change the cycle is also dubious. When Sunderland first got promoted to the Premier League in 1996 they had had one top flight season out of the past 11 and had only finished 10th or higher in the second tier on two occasions (both of which ended with promotion). Since jumping from 20th in Division 1 in '94-'95 to 1st in '95-'96, thereby getting promoted to the Premier League for the first time, they have played 15 Premiership and 5 Championship seasons. They finished in the following spots in their 5 Championship campaigns: 3rd (lost in play-offs), 1st, 3rd (lost in play-offs), 1st, 1st. It looks like that first Premiership season was transformative to me, it altered Sunderland from a club bumping along in the bottom half of the second tier to one that mostly played in the top flight and when it wasn't doing so was banging loudly on the door to return.
                        Last edited by Janik; 01-11-2017, 10:52.

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                          #62
                          Why do people think that people seeking to manage in the premier league should start down the divisions and work their way up? less than half of the premier league managers have any experience of managing outside of a top flight, at all and most of those have at most one or two seasons, usually at the club where they played.

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                            #63
                            I think Sunderland's only two FA Cup final appearances since the war have come while they were in Division Two. They reached a League Cup Final as a division one club (but lost it and got relegated that season). To be honest, the Championship does seem to suit their "stature".

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                              #64
                              I was thinking similar things when Giggs was called entitled for applying for Premier League jobs. It merely looks like understanding the market to me.

                              Consider:
                              Pep Guardiola - first 1st XI head coach/manager role: Barcelona
                              Zinedine Zidane - Real Madrid
                              Luis Enrique - Roma
                              Pippo Inzaghi - AC Milan
                              Juergen Klinsmann - Germany
                              Rudi Voeller - Germany
                              Roberto Mancini - Fiorentina
                              Ruud Gullit - Chelsea
                              Gianluca Vialli - Chelsea
                              Roberto Di Matteo - Chelsea
                              Gianfranco Zola - West Ham
                              Gary Neville - Valencia
                              Laurent Blanc - Bordeaux
                              Didier Deschamps - Monaco

                              etc., etc all over Europe. And that is just a random selection that sprung to my mind. Giggs thinking he would be considered for the Man Utd., Everton or Leicester jobs is simply seeing how his peers as players have been treated and expecting the same.

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                                #65
                                Di Matteo is wrong, isn't he? Chelsea was after West Brom, not before it. OK, switch him with Lothar Matthaeus - Rapid Vienna

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                                  #66
                                  John Barnes - Celtic

                                  It's a list with more failures than successes for sure. Which suggests that boards are repeating the same mistake again and again in thinking that being hyper-talented at playing must give one special coaching insight. That said, given the speed that unsuccessful managers are sacked, I'm wondering if the same holds for bosses with lesser playing careers as well?

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                                    #67
                                    Janik, many of the guys on your list (including Guardiola, Zidane and Enrique) had multiple seasons of managing professional B or youth teams before they got the top job. Voeller and Klinsmann's jobs with Germany were also of a different kind than a major club job (for one, they had assistants with primary responsibility for tactics).

                                    That's significant.

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                                      #68
                                      It's days like today that I don't mind working in Sunderland too much.

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                                        #69
                                        perhaps, but Zidane was rubbish at managing Castilla. He won 4 out of every 9 games. There is little enough in there to suggest that he would have been any good at managing at all. Indeed 95% of Zidane's success entirely comes down to the players doing what he wants, because he is bigger than they are in the scheme of things, and he is the first manager of Real Madrid, where the chairman will sell the player rather than sack the manager. Also even a player as self absorbed and deeply, irredeemably stupid as Sergio Ramos knows that Zidane is a bigger player in the history of real madrid than him. It also helps that literally the last thing he did in his playing career was headbutt marco Materazzi in a world cup final. He's a violent psycho who will fuck you up if you cross him. That goes a very long way in maintaining discipline.

                                        Pep guardiola had one season managing a bunch of highly talented spanish underage internationals in the fourth tier of spanish football. He didn't learn anything remotely useful there, other than be able to demonstrate that he was really fucking serious about what he was doing, and that he had been thinking about this for a very long time. Maybe ryan giggs has been thinking thoughts about this, who knows, it's really hard to tell. He has been presenting a completely blank facade to the outside world since he was a child. There is literally no way of knowing what he would be like (I doubt it would be good though)

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                          Janik, many of the guys on your list (including Guardiola, Zidane and Enrique) had multiple seasons of managing professional B or youth teams before they got the top job. Voeller and Klinsmann's jobs with Germany were also of a different kind than a major club job (for one, they had assistants with primary responsibility for tactics).

                                          That's significant.
                                          Giggs has spent time working under other coaches at Old Trafford, of course. Never with primary responsibility for the results of a side, I guess, but it still it seems extremely similar in terms of time served in the system as the others you mention. Probably his main chance came and went when he wasn't appointed the boss at Man Utd in succession after Ferguson or more likely Moyes. As Berba notes, most of these former star players get their first big-time gig at the club they were most associated with as a player.

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                                            #71
                                            And if Klinsmann was more a figurehead than a head coach with Germany, then his first proper coaching role with a club was with... Bayern.

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                                              #72
                                              As Berba notes, it is the level of commitment that distinguishes him from the others (at least for me).

                                              I'd also that say that he suffers from being at a club that is primarily a business enterprise, rather than an oligarch's plaything.

                                              Maybe Giggs should go after the Wales job . . .
                                              Last edited by ursus arctos; 01-11-2017, 13:44.

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                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                                He's a violent psycho who will fuck you up if you cross him. That goes a very long way in maintaining discipline.
                                                I've never thought of Football management as being indistinguishable from running an organized crime syndicate before... maybe the Kray brothers as coaches is what England has been missing all these years?!? Oh, and it explains Mourinho's problem in staying at a club more than three years. He is a whiny, snidey, self-aggrandising egostorm of a twat but ultimately all mouth and no trousers in the physical stakes. Can you imagine him squaring up to even a shortarse like Eden Hazard? A bully and a coward, basically.

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                                                  #74
                                                  I should have been a bit clearer. when I was talking about people taking over at the club they were at outside the top tier, it was Marco silva, in the second tier of portuguese football, and Jurgen Klopp in the second tier of german football, and eddie howe I was primarily thinking of.

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                                                    #75
                                                    hah Janik, the person I kept comparing Ferguson to is Tony soprano. Everything is ultimately based on the long term, and protecting the idea of the organization which is an extension of the leader (it's basically the chieftain model of leadership) whereas mourinho is the Fucking Joker, and I don't mean cesar romero.

                                                    Ferguson hit beckham with a boot, and it was beckham they sold. But one of the key points in ferguson's early career at aberdeen was they were on a pre-season tour of the carribbean, and they were playing a friendly against some local team, and they had a big centre half who was kicking the living shit out of their forwards, and the ref wouldn't do anything, so ferguson subbed himself on, and knocked him unconscious with an elbow. Imagine the impression that made on his players.

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