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Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View PostRyan Giggs has declared an interest in the vacancies at Leicester and at Everton. Obviously still thinks jobs in the lower divisions are beneath him,the entitled twat.
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Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View PostRyan Giggs has declared an interest in the vacancies at Leicester and at Everton. Obviously still thinks jobs in the lower divisions are beneath him,the entitled twat.
If he thinks he so good, why doesn't he try managing Salford City instead? He is after all a joint owner!
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Grayson had been sacked by both his clubs before Preston and his tactics at Sunderland were dire so it was wishful thinking that he had a prayer of being successful.
Their history since 1958 is a classic case of yo-yo club. 30 seasons in the 2nd tier versus 29 in the top flight. Even the Sky cash cow couldn't change that cycle.
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Sunderland had one season in the third tier in the 80s, the only time they have dropped to that level. To date...
Does that make it 29+30+1 or 29+29+1?
That the Premiership cash cow didn't change the cycle is also dubious. When Sunderland first got promoted to the Premier League in 1996 they had had one top flight season out of the past 11 and had only finished 10th or higher in the second tier on two occasions (both of which ended with promotion). Since jumping from 20th in Division 1 in '94-'95 to 1st in '95-'96, thereby getting promoted to the Premier League for the first time, they have played 15 Premiership and 5 Championship seasons. They finished in the following spots in their 5 Championship campaigns: 3rd (lost in play-offs), 1st, 3rd (lost in play-offs), 1st, 1st. It looks like that first Premiership season was transformative to me, it altered Sunderland from a club bumping along in the bottom half of the second tier to one that mostly played in the top flight and when it wasn't doing so was banging loudly on the door to return.Last edited by Janik; 01-11-2017, 10:52.
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Why do people think that people seeking to manage in the premier league should start down the divisions and work their way up? less than half of the premier league managers have any experience of managing outside of a top flight, at all and most of those have at most one or two seasons, usually at the club where they played.
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I think Sunderland's only two FA Cup final appearances since the war have come while they were in Division Two. They reached a League Cup Final as a division one club (but lost it and got relegated that season). To be honest, the Championship does seem to suit their "stature".
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I was thinking similar things when Giggs was called entitled for applying for Premier League jobs. It merely looks like understanding the market to me.
Consider:
Pep Guardiola - first 1st XI head coach/manager role: Barcelona
Zinedine Zidane - Real Madrid
Luis Enrique - Roma
Pippo Inzaghi - AC Milan
Juergen Klinsmann - Germany
Rudi Voeller - Germany
Roberto Mancini - Fiorentina
Ruud Gullit - Chelsea
Gianluca Vialli - Chelsea
Roberto Di Matteo - Chelsea
Gianfranco Zola - West Ham
Gary Neville - Valencia
Laurent Blanc - Bordeaux
Didier Deschamps - Monaco
etc., etc all over Europe. And that is just a random selection that sprung to my mind. Giggs thinking he would be considered for the Man Utd., Everton or Leicester jobs is simply seeing how his peers as players have been treated and expecting the same.
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John Barnes - Celtic
It's a list with more failures than successes for sure. Which suggests that boards are repeating the same mistake again and again in thinking that being hyper-talented at playing must give one special coaching insight. That said, given the speed that unsuccessful managers are sacked, I'm wondering if the same holds for bosses with lesser playing careers as well?
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Janik, many of the guys on your list (including Guardiola, Zidane and Enrique) had multiple seasons of managing professional B or youth teams before they got the top job. Voeller and Klinsmann's jobs with Germany were also of a different kind than a major club job (for one, they had assistants with primary responsibility for tactics).
That's significant.
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perhaps, but Zidane was rubbish at managing Castilla. He won 4 out of every 9 games. There is little enough in there to suggest that he would have been any good at managing at all. Indeed 95% of Zidane's success entirely comes down to the players doing what he wants, because he is bigger than they are in the scheme of things, and he is the first manager of Real Madrid, where the chairman will sell the player rather than sack the manager. Also even a player as self absorbed and deeply, irredeemably stupid as Sergio Ramos knows that Zidane is a bigger player in the history of real madrid than him. It also helps that literally the last thing he did in his playing career was headbutt marco Materazzi in a world cup final. He's a violent psycho who will fuck you up if you cross him. That goes a very long way in maintaining discipline.
Pep guardiola had one season managing a bunch of highly talented spanish underage internationals in the fourth tier of spanish football. He didn't learn anything remotely useful there, other than be able to demonstrate that he was really fucking serious about what he was doing, and that he had been thinking about this for a very long time. Maybe ryan giggs has been thinking thoughts about this, who knows, it's really hard to tell. He has been presenting a completely blank facade to the outside world since he was a child. There is literally no way of knowing what he would be like (I doubt it would be good though)
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostJanik, many of the guys on your list (including Guardiola, Zidane and Enrique) had multiple seasons of managing professional B or youth teams before they got the top job. Voeller and Klinsmann's jobs with Germany were also of a different kind than a major club job (for one, they had assistants with primary responsibility for tactics).
That's significant.
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As Berba notes, it is the level of commitment that distinguishes him from the others (at least for me).
I'd also that say that he suffers from being at a club that is primarily a business enterprise, rather than an oligarch's plaything.
Maybe Giggs should go after the Wales job . . .Last edited by ursus arctos; 01-11-2017, 13:44.
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostHe's a violent psycho who will fuck you up if you cross him. That goes a very long way in maintaining discipline.
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I should have been a bit clearer. when I was talking about people taking over at the club they were at outside the top tier, it was Marco silva, in the second tier of portuguese football, and Jurgen Klopp in the second tier of german football, and eddie howe I was primarily thinking of.
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hah Janik, the person I kept comparing Ferguson to is Tony soprano. Everything is ultimately based on the long term, and protecting the idea of the organization which is an extension of the leader (it's basically the chieftain model of leadership) whereas mourinho is the Fucking Joker, and I don't mean cesar romero.
Ferguson hit beckham with a boot, and it was beckham they sold. But one of the key points in ferguson's early career at aberdeen was they were on a pre-season tour of the carribbean, and they were playing a friendly against some local team, and they had a big centre half who was kicking the living shit out of their forwards, and the ref wouldn't do anything, so ferguson subbed himself on, and knocked him unconscious with an elbow. Imagine the impression that made on his players.
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