Couldn't get a ticket for today however I thought I'd pop up to Edgbaston on the off chance this afternoon after a bit of book shopping in Birmingham. Got here about an hour ago and a kind west Indian fan was leaving (understandable really) and gave me her ticket. In the hollies stand. Hoping to see a finish tonight.
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Dave Cameron Must Go: West Indies in England, 2017
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I think eventually these tours should not be viable yet this was a Saturday sell-out so maybe they still make money, at least for now.
They will need to start all WI Tests on Fridays if they want a good chance of getting some Sunday play. Throw in a T20 on the Monday.
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My Headingley ticket for Saturday cost £30 - we bought in January at early bird prices. It'd be £35 to buy today. Same price as the New Zealand / Sri Lanka Tests were the last couple of years and less than the provincial Tests against South Africa were selling for.
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People seem to be buying "a nice day at the cricket" rather than competitive sport. Or a chance to see England in the flesh with your mates and a pint rather than see them tested by quality opposition.
A bit like going to an England v San Marino World Cup qualifier.
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- Mar 2008
- 20753
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View PostA bit like going to an England v San Marino World Cup qualifier
I was there yesterday. Sorry I didn't seek you out Jon, I suspect I didn't enjoy it as much as you did. I first watched Clive Lloyd and co in 1967 and this must be their weakest team since then.
Have we now reached the stage where, instead of a weak visiting side because all their top guys have gone freelance, the West Indies just don't have a strong pool of players. There was still discipline there, so they persevered after the top order were out rather than just slog into the river.
My ticket for the Thursday at Lord's was £65.
As SD suggests, it's a day out rather than a contest. Fine, but accept that soon only four teams will play test cricket. Like pre 1939 basically. West Indies as above and Sri Lanka have few good players, Pakistan no venues, New Zealand no spectators and Bangladesh and Zimbabwe no money. Freezing your nuts off in Dublin isn't going to save the format.
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Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
Have we now reached the stage where, instead of a weak visiting side because all their top guys have gone freelance, the West Indies just don't have a strong pool of players.
"But it isn't just two players that West Indies are missing, it's almost an entire team."
Last edited by Ray de Galles; 20-08-2017, 20:06.
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It was about the poverty of their play and the general lack of seeming to care. To Kimber's credit, he wrote a couple of pieces later praising them for completely turning that around.
Etienne is right in that part was quite similar (and there were also references to the weight of history).
But the missing player narrative really doesn't work for Pakistan.
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Well, it did have a few references to players missing because of various allegations too.
I don't think he was wrong particularly in either case, but things can change pretty rapidly.
(It probably doesn't belong in this thread, but India's annihilation of Sri Lanka in an ODI yesterday fitted with the idea that the top of the game is becoming detached from the rest).
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Yes, test attendances do hold up in this country and the "nice day out at the cricket" theory espoused by Satchmo is definitely true. I don't know how long this will carry on though. Look at this summer. Even this test series just passed, against South Africa, had very few competitive and absorbing days. As for the day night aspect of the last test match, it was a sell out for the first few days but then it nearly always at Edgbaston. I think it is the best attended venue for test matches outside of London. I think I did read an article recently saying that this match had attracted a higher amount of first-time attenders than would normally go to the Edgbaston test. But like I said, a sell out as normal. I would be interested in seeing how the TV figures for the day/night test did in comparison to the other test matches this summer. If they are significantly better then I can see Sky pushing for more day/night tests but if, as I suspect, they are more or less the same, then I can't see a great future for day/night tests here in England, just the odd one to practise for ones in upcoming tests abroad, as was largely the case with this one.
DG - yes, I share with you your sadness at the decline of the West Indies team. I have seen them once before, in the mid 2000s, also at Edgbaston. I was struck this time by the lack of West Indies fans around the ground compared to 13 years ago, certainly not in the Hollies stand where I was. Maybe there were more by you. Or maybe there were more in 2004 because it was Day 4 of the test and so it was only £20 to get in. As I said upthread, I got my ticket for free, off a kind middle-aged West Indian fan who had come up to Edgbaston for the day to support her team. By about 6 o'clock she had just had enough - of the cricket and of the antics in the Hollies stand - and so was happy enough to give me her ticket for the last few hours' play.
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Back to the England selection dilemma, has Haseeb Hammed made any runs this summer yet? I'd still be inclined to take him to Australia. And I do feel a little sorry for Jennings as he was improving (albeit slowly) against a strong South African attack and he would surely have made hay against the West Indies (refuse to call them Windies).
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I don't buy the "missing player" narrative for WI. Their best XI would be equally "don't give a fuck", even moreso. The game was dying there before 20/20 due to basketball, emigration and other drains, but T20 killed off any chance of a revival. Shit players today earn far more money than the greats of the 70s and 80s, who had to play in Lancashire League and work normal jobs in the winter (e.g. Michael Holding before Packer, and he still played Lancashire League later).
I agree with Kimber that Chanderpaul would still be their best batsman, at 43. Gayle IMHO was never much of a Test opener. Bravo hit and miss. For proof, look at career Test records in the last 15 years (or post-Lara) and apart from Chanderpaul, I don't think any WI batsman is anywhere near the top tier. Bowlers even less so.Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 21-08-2017, 11:05.
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- Mar 2008
- 20753
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View PostThe game was dying there before 20/20 due to basketball, emigration and other drains, but T20 killed off any chance of a revival
Although a cricket fan for a lifetime as I mentioned, there's been only one season when I watched the county championship regularly, when Ambrose was at Northampton in the mid 90s. Why? The standard was/ is mediocre, the 'crowds' tiny and timings inconvenient. It could easily have 'died' along with the pensioner support base without the cross-subsidy from Sky etc. I mean, don't kids here as in Jamaica prefer to play basketball?
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I'm not convinced by the Basketball bogeyman.
Other than Patrick Ewing (who moved to Massachusetts at 12) and Tim Duncan (from St Croix, anything but a cricket hotbed), the West Indies haven't produced players who approach the standard of the cricketers of the Golden Age. A better argument could be made for athletics and the general trend towards kids not playing sport during any free time they may have.
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Confirmation of this has made me feel a bit better about my ticket for The Oval now :
Chris Gayle and Marlon Samuels included in ODI squad
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostI'm not convinced by the Basketball bogeyman.
Other than Patrick Ewing (who moved to Massachusetts at 12) and Tim Duncan (from St Croix, anything but a cricket hotbed), the West Indies haven't produced players who approach the standard of the cricketers of the Golden Age. A better argument could be made for athletics and the general trend towards kids not playing sport during any free time they may have.
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