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    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    Souness and Hrubesch are the only European Cup winning captain who scored in the 1982 World Cup finals.
    Honourable mentions:

    Platini - captain of France, scorer of European Cup final winner
    Dalglish - scorer of European Cup final winner
    John Robertson - scorer of European Cup final winner
    Trevor Francis - scorer of European Cup final winner
    Rabah Madjer - scorer of Porto's equaliser as they won 87 European Cup final

    Panenka - winning pen at a Euros final ... okay, I'm stretching it now but, if you add Ipswich's 1981 UEFA Cup winner John Wark's goal to Dalglish and Robertson's on the night then Scotland's ultimately fatal 5-2 win over New Zealand was the only game to feature goals by three different European club final scorers.

    And in 1992-93 European Golden Boot Ally McCoist was just one goal from the Champs League wank fantasy final.

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      Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
      Scored in the final of both the European Cup/UCL and World Cup:
      Juan Schiaffino
      Ferenc Puskas
      Gerd Muller
      Zinedine Zidane
      What about Zoltán Czibor then, smart arse?! Not only did he score in both finals while losing in both finals - he scored in both in the same bloody stadium. I'd call that pretty memorable trivia ... you stupid Wankdorf.

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        Originally posted by Jorge Porbillas View Post
        The rebrand saw some countries denied a place in the Champions League. After Cwmbran Town became Wales' first ever European Cup representatives in 1993-94 following the formation of the (then) League of Wales in 1992-93, the league's second ever champions, Bangor City, were forced into the UEFA Cup rather than the European Cup.
        Bangor City missed out the following season too as did Barry Town in 1996-97 and it wasn't until 1997-98 that Welsh Clubs were allowed into the Champions League.
        Aye, it heralded creeping exclusivity at both ends of the competition but at the bottom end it's just downright exclusion. Nottingham Forest might be the club from the smallest conurbation to win it but if UEFA keeps on the path it started with the Champions League rebrand - where all that counts is the size of the potential TV audience in your country - we'll soon have countries to provide winners and finalists unable to place their domestic champions in the competition. I'm thinking here about Scotland and Sweden - probably Portugal is next on the list.

        How long til the precedent set by having clubs from Israel and parts of Asia in the comp allows UEFA to get the Japanese and Chinese into the Champions League. Australian clubs would follow soon after as they're already in the Asian confederation anyway. Bill it and they will come.

        I mean, never mind all Ceferin's New York patter; we've already had the final played in Asia ...

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          When? It's been close - in European İstanbul and in Moscow but it's not been in Asia yet has it?

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            Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
            And I had no idea what a Székely was until I read about this former Hearts manager on Wiki.

            And then forgot what it was until I read you talking about your father-in-law, and it got me reading that page again:

            László is of Székely origin. He is married with two children and studied in the Public Secondary School in Odorheiu Secuiesc, Romania and in the University extension in Hoghia, Romania. He speaks four languages; English, German, Hungarian and Romanian. As an ethnic minority growing up in Communist Romania he was forced to listen to Hungarian football matches on the radio in secret as foreign radio broadcasts were banned. He said, about this: "Life under the regime was brutal. It was especially hard on us Hungarians living there. We used to secretly listen to Ferencváros matches on the radio". He fled to West Germany on a tourist's visa in 1984 to live with his uncle and start a new life in the West.

            .
            I live in the heart of Székely land. My daughter was born in László's home town. (Though my wife is not Székely but Magyar). Count Dracula was a Székely (the fictional character I mean in Stoker' s novel, not Vlad Dracul (the impaler) whose name Stoker used - he was a Wlach.

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              Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
              When? It's been close - in European İstanbul and in Moscow but it's not been in Asia yet has it?
              No but it has been played overnight, edging into the wee small local hours after extra time and pens, in European Istanbul in 2005... which is OBVIOUSLY what I was referring to, ad hoc.

              Think what you've done there, mate, is get yourself mixed up and confused the Atatürk Olympic Stadium in 2005 with the Şükrü Saracoğlu staging the 2009 UEFA Cup final, on the Asian side of the Bosphorous. Particularly embarrassing for you because that was contested between two sides who've never even reached the ECCC/UCL final but - hey - at least you haven't spent hundreds of man hours on this thread trying to pass yourself off as some sort of European Cup final expert. I mean, that would be just humiliating ...

              Anyway - anyone see Noel Edmonds' new vehicle on C4 ... I quite enjoyed it ... knew I would ...
              Last edited by Alex Anderson; 15-08-2017, 19:36. Reason: At least I know I'm solid on Vlad The Impaler having been invented by Francis Ford Coppola ... oh for fuck's sake ...

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                I thought you were talking about the final UEFA Cup Final, which was hosted by Fenerbahçe in the Şükrü Saracoğlu Stadium

                Ach, serves me right for worrying about getting the diacritical marks right.
                Last edited by ursus arctos; 15-08-2017, 19:37.

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                  I think the local finish time was worse in Moscow whenever that was. It must have been getting on for 2am local time when John Terry hilariously blasted the ball over the bar

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                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                    I live in the heart of Székely land. My daughter was born in László's home town. (Though my wife is not Székely but Magyar). Count Dracula was a Székely (the fictional character I mean in Stoker' s novel, not Vlad Dracul (the impaler) whose name Stoker used - he was a Wlach.
                    "Location; Deepest Transylvania"; Teams "FK Csikszereda Women's U18 team..."

                    The clues were there, really, weren't they. I'm really not the most observant. But you probably observed that when I couldn't tell the difference between continents, massive major Turkish venues and completely different European finals played five years apart.

                    Bloomin heck, ad hoc. I will obviously be the last person on OTF not to know this about you (standard for me) and you will have maybe stopped finding your daily life incredibly exotic. But that's how it's reading to me right now. How did you end up in ... No - no ... won't do that to you.

                    But, for starters, how is Laszlo faring now? The Wiki page said he was a tv pundit ... but I probably misread it ...
                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 15-08-2017, 19:47. Reason: The man can find his life as exotic as he bloody well wants to!

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                      Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                      I thought you were talking about the final UEFA Cup Final, which was hosted by Fenerbahçe in the Şükrü Saracoğlu Stadium
                      Yeah and now I'm worried I was talking about Moscow in 2008 ...

                      Crashing and burning.

                      Must go out on a high. Must find solid piece of European Cup trivia ...

                      Ah! Got it. Biggest ever European Cup semi-final humping: Eintracht Frankfurt 12 - 4 Rangers

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                        Istanbul and Moscow are both UTC +3, so the competition for the latest trophy presentation must be quite close.

                        Traveling supporters definitely got back to their hotels later in Istanbul, though.

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                          Only winners to reach the final by only beating sides who had/have never before or since reached any of the three European finals?
                          Last edited by Alex Anderson; 15-08-2017, 20:34. Reason: Not telling you. No I didn't fuck it up first time I posted it. Did not.

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                            Rangers reached the CWC final the year after the 12-4, which shows how weak the CWC was, I guess.

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                              And they did it by inflicting the record Euro 1/4 final loss on another German side. They beat Ferencvaros, Moenchengladbach and Wolves before losing the final to Fiorentina. As per the two other times Rangers reached the CWC final, it was an epic run.

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                                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                Istanbul and Moscow are both UTC +3, so the competition for the latest trophy presentation must be quite close.

                                Traveling supporters definitely got back to their hotels later in Istanbul, though.
                                It wasn't at that time UA, it was only two hours ahead of London whereas Moscow was three. The white elephant stadium was located amongst shanty towns on the edge of the city and had no fixed transport links at the time, a nightmare of a place to get to and from.

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                                  I will try and answer at some point Alex but now (5am) am heading out the door to drive to Vienna in some kind of Austro-Hungarian throwback

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                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    I will try and answer at some point Alex but now (5am) am heading out the door to drive to Vienna in some kind of Austro-Hungarian throwback
                                    Yeah - that's all the answer I need, ad hoc. I'm picturing Matthias Sindelar, huddled into his greatcoat, sat outside a café on the Ringstrasse whispering bitterly between sips of coffee:

                                    "This contact of yours from the east? Where is he? Eh? He's supposed to be here by now"

                                    And Freud, sucking on a seegar at the same table, spits through gritted teeth;

                                    "Be calm, you fool. Be calm. He will be here. He comes not just from one land but many - crosses not just two borders of the map but many of the heart ... the borders of time - of history. He will be here. We must just wait. He will be here ..."

                                    Erm ... yeah - safe drive mate.
                                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-08-2017, 08:02. Reason: I had Klimt and Hans Krankl and that was me out of Austrians ... ooh Wittgenstein ... and that bloke he was at school with??!

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                                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                      Glan Letheran and Craig Bellamy - two Welshman who were unused subs in European Cup finals, 1975 and 2007. Those who played: Yorath, Joey Jones, Rush, Giggs, Bale.
                                      And what an "impact" Yorath made in 75. I was yakking earlier about Paolo Montero having "earned the right" throughout his career to be the first red card in the European Cup final but Terry's is possibly the worst tackle ever in a European Cup/Champions League final. Certainly the worst results from a tackle were endured by Björn Andersson. There's close-up footage which turns the stomach - this version contains only the PG camera angles:



                                      Little bit of a Home Internationals victory there - especially considering Scotland had Kenny Burns playing in two finals.

                                      Of course Wales could have had Owen Hargreaves too, had his mum and brother put the foot down but, if we get into the whole UK passport thing then everyone could have played for everyone else.

                                      As it stands, ignoring his 2008 win with Manchester United, Hargreaves and Steve McManaman are only Englishmen to win it with non-British clubs. Bale's caught their medal and goals-in-the-final tally (for Non-British clubs) on his own.

                                      Hell, we can use Bale's converted shooutout penalty in the 2016 final as a tie-breaker, as Hargreaves scored one with "Home country" Man United in the 2008 final but didn't take one for Bayern v Valencia in 2001. So, it's official: Gareth Bale - Best Brit Abroad in the European Cup/UCL final.

                                      (yeah, I know he won the last one in Cardiff but this isn't a time to be getting pedantic.

                                      Shut up - you know what I mean!)

                                      Chris Waddle was a pen shootout away with Marseille in 91, of course, and Gerry Hitchens left Inter a couple of years too early.

                                      Paul Lambert and Steve Archibald mean Scotland has two players who have played in the final with Non-British teams. No goals. Mixed results.
                                      Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-08-2017, 09:19. Reason: If we get into Scottish European Cup finalists - yeah, I'm gonnae say it - we'd be here all day. DES BREMNER!

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                                        British European Cup/UCL Final Scorers:

                                        Norn Iron
                                        George Best

                                        Wales
                                        Gareth Bale

                                        Scoooootland
                                        Tommy Gemmell (x2)
                                        Stevie Chalmers
                                        Kenny Dalglish
                                        John Robertson

                                        Eng-ger-lund
                                        Bobby Charlton (x 2)
                                        Brian Kidd
                                        Phil Neal (x2)
                                        Terry McDermott
                                        Tommy Smith
                                        Trevor Francis
                                        Alan Kennedy
                                        Peter Withe
                                        Teddy Sheringham
                                        Steve McManaman
                                        Steven Gerrard
                                        Sol Campbell
                                        Frank Lampard
                                        Wayne Rooney


                                        So Wales and Northern Ireland left fighting it out for the wooden spoon and it's also too close to call between the top two home nations. Perhaps a recount needed...
                                        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-08-2017, 09:31. Reason: I know I'll have missed someone. But England may be rivalling Mozambique and Angola for most players scoring in the final...

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                                          Kenny Burns is another European Cup winner who later played for Barnsley. Footballer of the Year in 1977-78, but was in the Scotland teams of shame v Peru and Iran (dropped for the Netherlands game)

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                                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                            Kenny Burns is another European Cup winner who later played for Barnsley. Footballer of the Year in 1977-78, but was in the Scotland teams of shame v Peru and Iran (dropped for the Netherlands game)
                                            Yeah - you should mention that "shame" bit next time you meet him, Satchmo.

                                            You're making me think of Dundee though. Apart from reaching the semis in 62-63, I'm sure there's a trivia-tastic connection with the final there ...

                                            Maybe it's just that Tommy Gemmell and Fabrizio Ravanelli have both played and scored for Dundee - guys who've scored in the final. Ivano Bonetti player-managed them, with his brother Dario as non-playing assistant - Ivano played the 1992 final for Sampdoria at Wembley, with Dario an unused sub.

                                            Oh! Yes! Of course! European Cup Final Brothers! Well, De Boer me sideways with an Unused Phil Neville of an Unused Rafael, multiplied by a Kolo then a Yaya! Is there no end to the trivia.

                                            And after the Grays had played in the final for Leeds, Frank went on to win it with Forest and his son, Andrew, ended up at ... BARNSLEY ... against whom the ref booked the wrong brother when Rafael or Fabio fouled someone.
                                            Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-08-2017, 12:27. Reason: Oh, and the "weak" CWC bit too - he only got sent off 3 times in 4 games as a youth at Ibrox so ...

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                                              Every European Cup winning team needs a thug. Forest had him and Larry Lloyd.

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                                                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                                Every European Cup winning team needs a thug.
                                                Nah. Only three men have been sent off in the final - and all were on the losing team. Every European Cup winning team needs to be full of dudes who can handle themselves. Different thing altogether. If Burns and Lloyd had only been thugs they would have been nowhere near that Forest side.

                                                The technicians need to be hard enough and the thugs need to be technicians too. S'the European Cup final, man.
                                                Last edited by Alex Anderson; 16-08-2017, 12:35. Reason: but check out the edited version of my previous post; BROTHERS! ... and OAKWELL-CENTRIC REFERENCES!

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                                                  European Cup winners from different clubs who went to the same school. Kirkby: Terry McDermott (Liverpool) and Dennis Mortimer (Villa).

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                                                    Belter, Tee Rex.

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