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    Nottingham Forest in 1980-81, to CSKA Sofia

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      Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
      Yet again, I can't understand why anyone would miss an answer in one of my neat, concise, counter-attacky replies ...



      Ooh! As I typed "counter-attacky", Steve McManaman - scorer of a fairly decent, technically perfectly struck goal for Real Madrid in the Champions League final two years before Zizou's, said the word "counter-attack" on my telly ... about ten seconds before Coutinho - a skilful, Kaka-ish Brazilian in a white shirt, equalised against a team in all-red ... in the Champions League ... as I spoke to a Liverpool fan ...

      They're not patterns - they're messages from angels ...
      Forgive me, my lord... I have flagellated all the skin off my body in repentance...

      Apologies again for the lateness of my reply... it takes a while to type accurately when you're using an old biro held between the teeth.

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        Forest themselves, goin out to habitual holders-humpers CSKA Sofia in 80-81.

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          Originally posted by 3 Colours Red View Post
          Forgive me, my lord... I have flagellated all the skin off my body in repentance...

          Apologies again for the lateness of my reply... it takes a while to type accurately when you're using an old biro held between the teeth.
          Too late 3CR - you've just booked another century in purgatory for your eternal soul ... during which you are condemned to listen to my uninterrupted monologue on whether or not the Ajax strip in the 1995 final should be considered all-blue, blue with red "trim" or just blue and red.

          May seem harsh but if I can go through this entire thread without making a single mistake I don't see why I should tolerate it from anyone else.

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            Alex, it's navy and dark red. On Sensible Soccer, there were only blue and black editing options so I opted for black with claret sleeves, but it hardly mattered as the computer allowed Ajax and Milan to play in their home kits, as they had done at the Olympic Stadium in the group stages.
            Last edited by denishurley; 27-09-2017, 13:41. Reason: Serves me right for trying to be smart and saying 'De Meer'

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              Go on then three teams to have worn green or green and another colour in European Cup finals. Three is, I hasten to add, all I can think of - there may well be more.

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                Shh Alex doesn't like to talk about one of those.

                He's fine with St Etienne though

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                  And is the other Panathinaikos?

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                    Damn right, ad hoc - I fucking HATE Panathinaikos ... with their horribly unpronounceable name. Take a lesson from Feyenoord and Espanyol, "Pana" - get it westernised for us Robbie Savages.

                    ASSE, with their red, white and blue collar on a northern Ireland shirt. Bit overtly Unionist for my liking. Sorry.

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                      Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                      Go on then three teams to have worn green or green and another colour in European Cup finals. Three is, I hasten to add, all I can think of - there may well be more.
                      Think the bhoys have got your three there, Rogin. But, come on, only "other" team to play in ANY European final in green and white hoops?

                      Sorry - keep it European Cup, Alex.

                      I'm watching the build-up to Atletico v Chelsea and finding it very cruel on everyone here that the Metripoiltano is hosting the final it as soon as 2019. After all our double-helix-discovering research ...

                      Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                      ... Ladies and gentlemen of ursus arctos's European Cup trivia thread, by way of making a public excuse for setting a question to which I didn't know the answer and taking no responsibility for my ignorance, here is the CONCLUSIVE and FULLY-COMPREHENSIVE, £250 excess LIST of ...

                      ... clubs whose ground has hosted the final but they themselves have never won the European Champion Clubs' Cup/UEFA Champions League:

                      Racing Club de Paris (1956, Real Madrid v Stade de Reims)
                      VfB Stuttgart (1959 and 1988)
                      Queen's Park (1960, 76 & 2002)
                      Young Boys Berne (1961, Benfica v Barca)
                      Paris Saint-Germain (1975 and 81)
                      AS Roma (1977, 1984, 1996, 2009)
                      SS Lazio (1977, 1984, 1996, 2009)
                      Sevilla (1986, Steaua v Barca)
                      Bari (1991, Red Star Belgrade v Marseille)
                      TSV 1860 Munich (1997 and 2012)
                      İstanbulspor (2005, Liverpool v Milan)
                      Schalke 04 (2004, Porto v Monaco)
                      Hertha Berlin (2015, Barca v Juve)



                      Took us AGES - and a lot of blood, sweat and tears to compose this list - and it's going to be unchanged for barely a couple of years at most.

                      I wanted more time than that to enjoy it.

                      I mean, PSG are probably gonnae win it this season to take one name off our list. This just as Dynamo Kiev are added as a replacement.

                      But, then, what if Atletico win it on their own patch in 2019?

                      Would only be fair to Ateltico if they did win it there, after everything else Madrid-related in their European Cup/UCL history. And it would be a great big karmic Fuck You to Real who won the second final at the Bernabeu but had already won the first European Cup so were NEVER on our list.

                      But, for 90 to 120 mins (plus possible pens) in June 2019 Atletico would be on the list then off it if they won. Is that correct? I dunno.

                      We need ursus to explain the regulatory criteria re this one ...
                      Last edited by Alex Anderson; 27-09-2017, 18:33. Reason: Now I know how Simeone feels - constantly having to replace a big name player.

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                        Originally posted by denishurley View Post
                        Alex, it's navy and dark red. On Sensible Soccer, there were only blue and black editing options so I opted for black with claret sleeves, but it hardly mattered as the computer allowed Ajax and Milan to play in their home kits, as they had done at the Olympic Stadium in the group stages.
                        Thanks Denis. You're certainly the man for regulatory criteria on this one.

                        Always bothered me if it could be considered a "mainly blue" shirt though. To my 499 years & 11 month-old mind-set, the "reverse" of Rogin's question only reaps Man United 1968 and Chelsea 2012. But I always wanted to include Ajax 1995.

                        Erm, can I?
                        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 27-09-2017, 18:46. Reason: I was never Christened. Catholic mum and a religion-hating dad. Fuck the 95 theses - give me the 95 Ajax

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                          Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                          Damn right, ad hoc - I fucking HATE Panathinaikos ... with their horribly unpronounceable name. Take a lesson from Feyenoord and Espanyol, "Pana" - get it westernised for us Robbie Savages.

                          ASSE, with their red, white and blue collar on a northern Ireland shirt. Bit overtly Unionist for my liking. Sorry.
                          You do realise that the collar was an honour for being champions, like a Scudetto shield?

                          Edit: And do Moenchengladbach count
                          for the green question or is it just considered trim?

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                            Has any other team finished as low in its domestic league in the year it won the European Cup as Aston Villa did in 1982 (11th)?

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                              Apparently the end of Blade Runner 2049 features Deckard, dying, saying "I've seen things you'll never see ... Attack ships burning on the shoulder of Orion ... lightbeams dancing off the Tannhauser Gate ... Aston Villa winning the European Cup"

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                                Chelsea winning it was inconceivable in the Ken Bates era. I have a dark feeling that Conte might get them their second.

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                                  Chelsea winning it was inconceivable in the Ken Bates era. I have a dark feeling that Conte might get them their second.

                                  Which countries who have supplied past winners have the least chance of even getting a club to the last 16 - Romania, Netherlands? Celtic last got there in 2012-13 so I suppose they have a chance but the seedings put them in groups with at least two stronger teams currently.

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                                    Originally posted by denishurley View Post
                                    You do realise that the collar was an honour for being champions, like a Scudetto shield?

                                    Edit: And do Moenchengladbach count
                                    for the green question or is it just considered trim?
                                    And red, white and blue cuffs too! And on the long sleeve (as shown before the semi with PSV below) ... oooft! Gorgeous!

                                    No! I did not know that! Bloody hell. I was just thinking about how gorgeous their Hampden strip was in 1976 but as soon as I read this I thought "wait a minute - Marseille at Ibrox in 1992-93; Did they not have a little ...?", Googled some pics of that side and - yup - there indeed was a little v-necked red, white and blue trim.

                                    The evidence was right in front of me all the time. I've seen PSG, ASM and Lyon at Ibrox too - maybe they were wearing the champions collar too? - must check what years they won the French title ... NEVER EVEN OCURRED TO ME, Denis. After all these years. Flippin eck.

                                    God, I even remember looking at various St Etienne strips over the years, on the Ligue 1 highlights programme, and thinking "Oh, that's a pity they've done away with their traditional collar ...". And, of course, this led to me imagining I've seen them with the red, white and blue collar in years when they were not champions.

                                    Do they still do that in France? It's a beautiful thing to do. a Lovely honorific.


                                    And Moenchengladbach 77 - I'd defo have them as all white with a green and black trim but, I'll tell you what, that "trim" was enough to make it the first strip I ever asked my mum to buy me. Before Rangers, Scotland, Liverpool or whoever else was available in all good North Ayrshire sport shops in the mid-late 70's: That trim - the very shape and manner of it - was the most intoxicatingly foreign thing I'd seen outside a James Bond film or a packet of 1:32 scale Airfix Afrika Korps.

                                    Was ranting on the last page of this thread about the various reasons I had for falling in love with the European Cup but, before I even really knew about Celtic winning it and Rangers not, or what exactly a "Real Madrid" was, that Moenchengladbach strip - in the first European Cup final I ever remember watching - is the first moment in my life I ever thought "foreign football is cool".

                                    And if I ever needed proof of my mum's love, walking into a Scottish sports shop in the 1970's and even saying the words "Borussia Moenchengladbach" ...

                                    If I'd watched the previous year's final I'd probably have combusted. Both strips were cool as feck but Les Verts with the shiny, shiny, tight, tight and the three colours trilogy collar ... maybe my parents didn't let me watch the 76 final because it was clearly pre-watershed stuff. All those square-jawed, big chested, gallic hunks with their wavy, flyaway, hirsute elan and fury-engorged nipples ...

                                    I'd have gone for Bayern. I love Teutonic pragmatism me.



                                    And ASSE beat Rangers at Ibrox that season too ... en route to reaching the Hampden final ... the season before my first game at Ibrox. (the bike they gifted us that evening is the most famous item in the Rangers trophy room) Imagine I'd seen that strip in the flesh ... I still wouldn't have remembered the collar was only for champions.
                                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 28-09-2017, 07:42. Reason: Champions of CHIC!

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                                      It was Rapid Vienna, by the way. 1996 Cup-Winners' Cup final versus PSG in Brussels. Which seemed apt because Celtic won in Brussels last night in the very competition this thread is woven around.

                                      And it's absolute bollocks because Sporting Clube de Portugal were the first and the last team to play in a European final in green-and-white hooped shirts.

                                      And their first final, was the 64 CWC final. They won the replay in Antwerp but the original game was at the Heysel. In Brussels. And Celtic won their European Cup in Lisbon - the same city where Sporting lost their last European final.

                                      So there's been three. Like the number of goals Celtic scored in Brussels last night. In the Champions League.
                                      Last edited by Alex Anderson; 28-09-2017, 07:51. Reason: until I remember another one, around lunchtime, or disover Ferencvaros switched to the hoops for their Fairs or CWC finals

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                                        I'm not sure that tradition still persists, Alex, which is a shame, though PSG do have blue, white and red so it kind of covers it.

                                        It may just have been an optional thing, I don't think Monaco did it in 1988-89 or Lens a decade later.

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                                          Bring it back. The campaign starts now.

                                          Elle est retrouvée!
                                          Quoi? - l'Éternité:
                                          C'est la mer allée
                                          Avec le red, white and blue collar roon the neck of the French champions, mate.

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                                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                            Which countries who have supplied past winners have the least chance of even getting a club to the last 16 - Romania, Netherlands? Celtic last got there in 2012-13 so I suppose they have a chance but the seedings put them in groups with at least two stronger teams currently.
                                            I'd say it's Serbia, Satchmo. Ronaldo and Messi, as well as Real and Barca's all round psychotic need to win it, keep Spain as "most likely" for me. PSG's money, and their start to this season's UCL, drags France ahead of Manchester and Chelsea ... I mean, England. But here's how I'd order all the countries who have won the European Cup/Champions League in the past, in terms of the likelihood of them winning it in the next couple of seasons.

                                            The fact France are even on that list because of a vote at a UEFA meeting ("don't let them defend it but they can keep the title - we can't have the first Champions League champions being declared null and void ... our sponsors might leave us ... people might think European football glory is all about money!") but are many people's favs to provide the next champion of Europe shows that the game does change. We think it's fixed but even the UCL cartel does fluctuate in nationality over time.

                                            Well, I say "fluctuate" ...

                                            Spain
                                            France
                                            England
                                            Italy
                                            Germany
                                            Portugal
                                            Netherlands
                                            Scotland
                                            Romania
                                            Serbia
                                            Last edited by Alex Anderson; 28-09-2017, 10:11. Reason: And, of course, Rangers would have beaten Milan in the replayed final.

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                                              I reckon Serbia is right, as bad as Romanian football is. The last time a Serbian club reached the group stages was 2010, when Partizan Belgrade lost all 6 games they played, whereas Romania's last involvement in the group stages is as recent as 2013. In 2012, CFR Cluj only failed to make the last 16 on head-to-head when they in fact had a better goal difference than Galatasaray.

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                                                I think England's five chances this season must outrank France's one, even if you put the Liverpool and Spurs components at around 25/1 each. One roll of the dice (cup football having a large chance component) puts PSG out, but Man United being "found out" in the quarters still leaves Man C and Chelsea, for example. Unless they all draw Real Madrid and Barcelona on good nights for Messi and Ronaldo.

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                                                  I'm usually all about "the tradition" and clubs "earning their right" to reach the final through years and years of their massive support willing them on to increasingly more agonising loses at increasingly later stages of the competition. Dortmund were a fitting new champion for the fact they were just such a fuck-off big club with that big ole support. And I love seeing Real Madrid and Inter winning it again after years away - the old stager back on top. Watching Barca do it for the first time ever, even via the telly, was a bit of a privilege. Atletico Madrid's need for the trophy now is arguably even greater than Rangers and Arsenal's.

                                                  But this season I just want to see Man City play PSG in the final. Fuck it. Let's have the first New Winner Guaranteed final of the Champions League era. Let's have the first New Winner Guaranteed final since Barca v Samp in the last ever European Cup final.

                                                  World Cup's going to Qatar - we're all-in with the petrobillionaire theocracies now anyway. Fuck it all. Let the money win. The two teams look bloody brilliant this year - the two clubs want it so bad. At least they've both won the Cup-Winners' Cup. At least City have a support which has suffered.

                                                  Two new finalists in a stadium which has never staged the final before (although David Silva has scored there in another European final). Let's draw a line under all that's gone before. That's what PSG and Man City seemed to be doing on Match Day 1, when they both went to the homes of much more "storied" European clubs, two former European Champions - two sides which had in fact met in the European Cup final - and inflicted their worst ever European home defeats on them.

                                                  PSG are hewn from European football history, Man City have enough of it under their belts and rubbed in their face. Fuck it. Let them have their final in Kiev.

                                                  Next up; Everton.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                                    I reckon Serbia is right, as bad as Romanian football is. The last time a Serbian club reached the group stages was 2010, when Partizan Belgrade lost all 6 games they played, whereas Romania's last involvement in the group stages is as recent as 2013. In 2012, CFR Cluj only failed to make the last 16 on head-to-head when they in fact had a better goal difference than Galatasaray.
                                                    Yeah the difference I saw in Crvena Zvezda between seeing them drawing at Ibrox en route to winning the thing in 1991 and seeing them losing at Ibrox (albeit to a late goal) to get Rangers through to the group Stages in 2007-08, was massive. They've got worse since.

                                                    Correspondingly, I've seen Steuau in the flesh twice; the remnants of their great 1986 side holding on to put us out in the 87-88 quarters and drawing with us and Gazza in the mid-nineties Group Stages. But it was the previously unheard of Unirea Urziceni - pumping us 4-1 at Ibrox in the 2009-10 group stages - who really woke me up to the fact there was all sorts going on in Romania which could still blow up in an unwary opponent's face.

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