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    Causio's initials - how many famous players have the initials FC or AFC?

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      Originally posted by tracteurgarçon View Post
      1) Ajax won one of their run of three wins on the trot in an all red kit

      And weren't Steaua in all white in 1986?
      Yup - Ajax won in 1973 in all-red and their next one, in 1995, in all-blue (with hundreds of detailing/trim/whatever ye call it - I'm not gonnae even attempt to pretend I know while Denis is here)

      Another couple off the list, tracteurgarçon. Superb. This means that, of the twelve clubs to have won the European Cup/Champions League final in a change/away kit, we now have

      Milan (1963, 89, 90, 94, 2003, 2007)
      Man U (1968)
      Ajax (1973, 1995)
      Bayern Munich (1974, 1976)
      Steaua (1986)
      Barca (1992)
      Juventus (1996)
      Real Madrid (2000, 2017)

      Come on - it's better than your Sunday crossword ...

      EIGHT DOWN: Cockney changes into one of his three V-necks (4)
      Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 12:56. Reason: Cryptic change kit

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        (2)The six years in which both sides contested the final in change/away kits

        So far we have ...

        1992, Barca in all-orange v Sampdoria in white top with blue shorts (and all the other loveliness of detail which makes Samp's kit so utterly gorgeous)

        2000, Real Madrid in all black v Valencia in all orange.

        Originally posted by denishurley View Post
        Can I at least say that another example of that has been mentioned already, from both teams’ points of view?
        You have at it any way you like, sir - you've been made to wait too long already.

        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 13:04. Reason: No clues here. Nothing to see. Keep walking ...

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          1968 - Manchester United (Blue) vs Benfica (White)
          1986 - Barcelona (Light Blue/Dark Blue) vs Steaua (White)
          1995 - Ajax (Dark Blue/Grey) vs Milan (White)

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            Treble correctness, ursus.

            One more to get for question 2, troops. To be fair, it is the hardest of the six to get (in my humble). If you remember this particular final - or even have pictures of the game in front of you - you'll know one of the teams for certain were in an away kit. The other perhaps not so much.

            Hope denishurley has his yellow card handy ...
            Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 13:45. Reason: I'm in no way humble. But neither am I full of passionate intensity ...

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              1989 - Milan (White) vs Steaua (Dark Blue/Light Blue)

              Though I must admit that I don't know what Steaua's "first" kit was at the time.

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                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                Causio's initials - how many famous players have the initials FC or AFC?
                Fabio Cannavaro
                Fabio Capello
                Franz Carr
                Frank Clark

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                  And, when it comes to European Cup finals, if you want the difficult made to look easy you have two friends to phone: Milan or ursus arctos ...



                  BOOM!

                  Job done. I was the same, ursus - unsure about Steaua's home kit that season. But, if our own denishurley doesn't mind me quoting one of my favourites pieces from his Museum of Jerseys site (no smoke-blowing here, Denis - it's just fucking brilliant stuff), "All-White on the Night for Milan";


                  ... Steaua wore red shirts with blue trim and for the final it was decreed that both teams would change kit. Steaua had worn all-white in beating Barcelona on penalties to win in 1986 but this time they were in dark blue shirts with sky-blue shorts and socks, while Milan would be in white ...


                  Remember a few pages back, ursus, you posted a pic of Mihail Majearu with the Cup? He was wearing that kind of Red-with-blue-trim shirt. Might just have been training gear but, combined with what I remember of Steaua the season previous to their final v Milan, when I saw them at Ibrox in the quarters, which made me think they might have been wearing an away kit in the Nou Camp ...



                  Celebrating, natch

                  ... although it was only confirmed reading Denis' piece (which also has the insight on Milan's own kit changes that night) and all I've ever really been aware of with Steaua's kits is that they beat Barca in the final wearing all-white then lost against all-white in a final in the Nou camp, wearing a kit heavily redolent of the one Barca wore, against them, in Seville in 86. So there.



                  So Question 2 is also now done. Just Question 1 remains partially unanswered - we only need those four other teams who've won the ECCC/UCL final wearing an away/change kit.
                  Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 14:51. Reason: A cockney changes "into" his V-necks. V necks. He has three "V" necks ...

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                            1965 - Internazionale, white with a black and blue band
                            1982 - Aston Villa, all white
                            1983 - HSV, all red
                            1988 - PSV, pictured above

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                              You got somewhere to go, pal?

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                                ... just back to the drawing board, mate. Just back to the drawing board ...

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                                  Oh and denishurley is now free to take part again. Anything I got wrong or missed, Denis?

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                                    No, it all seems beautifully in order.

                                    I'm free to belatedly lament Manchester United's exit and wonder (while accepting that the draw mightn't have been the same) if Bayern would have worn all-blue at Old Trafford or if they'd have come up with a nice hybrid of their away shirts, third shorts and home socks, like against PSV in 1990.

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                                      Denis, as you are here, why did Liverpool have to tape over their Umbro logos in 1981?

                                      Forest and HSV both displayed adidas logos the previous year, and that was not manufacturers’ marks first appearance.

                                      Was it the size of the marks? Some television thing? Something else?

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                                        I'll take that as a compliment, Denis.

                                        Wearing all-blue against Man U at Old Trafford in the Champions League?



                                        Any other occasions where the away team in an ECCC/UCL match wears one of the colour combos in which the host had previously won the final?

                                        There must have been plenty who've worn all-black against Real Madrid at the Bernabeu in the competition (Lyon and Spurs in deep navy are fooling me here but maybe ...)



                                        ... Christ, Fiorentina wore last Real Madrid's Cardiff kit in the final against Real, at the bloody Bernabeu in the second final ever played.

                                        Real at the San Siro v Milan, at any home of Bayern ... Liverpool at HSV ...?

                                        Yeah - this is too mind-bendy... I'll stop now with the away strips. When you need a snort of something before you can understand the next question it's usually just best left alone.

                                        Well I'll stop after, by way of conclusion, I've shared this list from a thread under Denis' piece on the Benfica kits for the 88 and 90 finals.

                                        Won the ECCC/UCL final in an away kit:

                                        Milan 1963,
                                        Inter 65,
                                        Man U 68,
                                        Ajax 73,
                                        Bayern 74 (first game and replay),
                                        Bayern 76,
                                        Aston Villa 82,
                                        HSV 83,
                                        Steaua 86,
                                        PSV 88,
                                        Milan 89,
                                        Milan 90,
                                        Barca 92,
                                        Milan 94,
                                        Ajax 95,
                                        Juve 96,
                                        Real Madrid 2000,
                                        Milan 2003,
                                        Milan 2007,
                                        Real Madrid 2017

                                        TOTAL: 20 out of 62 finals (counting both 1974 games as one final)

                                        LOST the ECCC/UCL final in an away kit:

                                        Real Madrid 1962,
                                        Benfica 68,
                                        Club Brugge 78,
                                        AS Roma 84,
                                        Barca 86,
                                        Steaua 89,
                                        Sampdoria 92,
                                        Milan 95,
                                        Juventus 97,
                                        Bayern 99,
                                        Valencia 2000,
                                        Milan 2005,
                                        Arsenal 2006,
                                        Man U 2009,
                                        Man U 2011,

                                        TOTAL: 15 out of 62
                                        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 20:21. Reason: Surprise, surprise - most finalists wear their home strips.

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                                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                          Denis, as you are here, why did Liverpool have to tape over their Umbro logos in 1981?

                                          Forest and HSV both displayed adidas logos the previous year, and that was not manufacturers’ marks first appearance.

                                          Was it the size of the marks? Some television thing? Something else?
                                          Yeah, UEFA tightened up the rules and apparently the Liverpool players were putting tape on each other's shirts in the tunnel. Real didn't have the trefoil either but the three stripes down the arms didn't count as a logo, thanks to adidas's close relationship with UEFA.

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                                            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                            Denis, as you are here, why did Liverpool have to tape over their Umbro logos in 1981?

                                            Forest and HSV both displayed adidas logos the previous year, and that was not manufacturers’ marks first appearance.

                                            Was it the size of the marks? Some television thing? Something else?
                                            Comment #7 below this John Devlin article seems to provide the thrust of the answer to your question beyond the official reason given for it.

                                            Adidas got their own way in the end of course. There’s an interesting story in the book ‘Pitch Invasion: Adidas, Puma and the Making of Modern Sport’ about how adidas muscled in on the Liverpool deal, forcing Umbro out. They apparently used their influence with UEFA a few years earlier to have the Umbro logos covered up (with tape) on the Liverpool shirts in the 1981 European Cup Final.

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                                              That's an intriguing theory, though Liverpool did wear Umbro logos in the 1984 victory (they wore adidas at Heysel).

                                              It was adidas' decade, though

                                              1980 - Nottingham Forest - adidas
                                              1981 - Liverpool - masked Umbro
                                              1982 - Aston Villa - Le Coq Sportif (then owned by adidas)
                                              1983 - HSV - adidas
                                              1984 - Liverpool - Umbro
                                              1985 - Juventus - Kappa
                                              1986 - Steaua - adidas
                                              1987 - Porto - adidas
                                              1988 - PSV - adidas
                                              1989 - Milan - Kappa

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                                                Always thought it was a France thing - the tape over the teet - what with the 81 final being in Paris.

                                                But I'm extrapolating that wildly from the fact teams weren't allowed to wear booze sponsors names in France in the Champions League years (so we'd see all sorts of one-off associated sponsors names, Rangers dropping McEwan's Lager for - what was it? - centre parcs??? - when playing in Auxerre. Nice tie-in - "centre parcs ... where you and the kids can all get bevvied on Scotland's rankest lager ...)

                                                After Liverpool in 84, Umbro had to wait another 11 years for a European champ.
                                                Last edited by Alex Anderson; 25-03-2018, 20:16. Reason: Always been a Buckfast man myself

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                                                  I had wondered about that possibility for exactly the same reason, but this was a decade before the Loi Evin.

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                                                    Had no idea Le Coq Sportif were owned by adidas.

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