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    Barcelona 1960s and Juventus 1990s are two of them for reasons we’ve recently discussed.

    Juventus hold the record, with three appearances in the finals of each of the Champions Cup and UEFA Cup

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      Correct so far, ursus.

      And now you've got Juve I can freely admit you inspired the question.

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        Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
        Atletico Madrid won their third Europa League of the 2010's the other night. Between the second and third triumphs they lost two Champions League finals to Real...

        ... (2) But each of the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s also produced a club (different clubs by the way) who has lost the ECCC/UCL final at least once and reached three "minor" European finals in the same decade
        1960s: Barcelona: European Cup runners-up 1961; Fairs Cup winners 1960 & 66, runners-up 1962; European Cup-Winners' Cup runners-up 1969.

        1970s: ?

        1980s: ?

        1990s: Juventus: Champions League winners 1996, runners-up 1997 & 1998; UEFA Cup Winners 1990 & 93, runners-up 1995.

        2010s: Atletico de Madrid: Champions League runners-up 2014 & 2016; Europa League winners 2010, 2012 & 2018.
        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 18-05-2018, 18:42. Reason: I've been to Wigtown and back - via the fucking A702 & 712 too - and still this isn't answered?! Poor.

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          70s - Gladbach?

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            By the way - A712, what an absolutely mint road that is. The bit past Clatteringshaws loch and the red deer range is superb.

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              Yes and yes, TRLB. Ashamed to say it's the first time I've ever driven either road or been to Wigtown. Came down through Ayrshire, then the coast to Girvan (which I'd done before to see Girvan playing in the Juniors), then home the long way round to the M74 was all new. Absolutely gorgeous - plenty stops for pics. Love how the sporadic felled forests add a splodge of the desolate to the whole vibe.

              Borussia Moenchengladbach: European Cup runners-up 1977; UEFA Cup winners 1975 & 1979, runners-up 1973.

              I know you'll enjoy those runners-up years almost as much as we enjoyed the Clatteringshaws Loch today.

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                The team of the 80s is Real Madrid

                Lost to Liverpool in 1981, lost the CWC to Aberdeen in 1983, won consecutive UEFA Cups against Videoton and Köln in 1985 and 1986.

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                  And we're done here.

                  Outstanding work, ursus - you were very much El Cholo of that question, with TRLB the Quique Sánchez Flores.

                  It's a goodish at-a-glance representation of the countries who've held the power in European club competition, in that Atletico represent Spain while Barca and Real Madrid are clearly countries of their own.

                  But it becomes a near-perfect representation if we squeeze in Leeds United (European Cup runners-up 1975; Cup-Winners' Cup runners-up 1973; Fairs Cup winners 1968 & 70, runners-up 1967) over a ten year period , the disrespecting of the "decade" criteria perfectly illustrating England's belated, dominant then nefarious presence in Club Europe.

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                    Injuries and surprise selections permitting, the 2018 final will probably feature players from England, Scotland and Wales for the first time since 1985.

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                      Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                      Borussia Moenchengladbach: European Cup runners-up 1977; UEFA Cup winners 1975 & 1979, runners-up 1973.

                      I know you'll enjoy those runners-up years almost as much as we enjoyed the Clatteringshaws Loch today.
                      Before my time as a coat hanger for the Reds, but yes, it's all part of the back story. Gladbach are probably the most fondly remembered of Liverpool's final opponents, not so much for the games themselves but for the freundschaft that has grown up between small groups of fans on either side since the Germans clubbed together to raise thousands of pounds for the Hillsborough families in the aftermath of that tragedy. A couple of years later, a group of Gladbach fans came over for a Liverpool game and later that season some Liverpool fans went the other way to take in a game at the Bökelberg. This has been continued every season since 1992, and you always know when the Germans are in town because George mentions it on the tannoy and plays their fan anthem and some other punky German songs at half time.

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                        Nice, TRLB. I'll never tire of saying this (as evidenced by the fact I've said it a million times on this thread alone) but 1977 was the first final I remember watching - and that Moenchengladbach strip was the first I ever craved like my life depended on it.

                        Arguably that strip -which seemed so unbearably exotic at the time - and that game are the reasons I'm on here 41 years later boring the tits off everyone. Just made me fall in love with European football.


                        We only beat teams in all-white in this final, Berti


                        That would have been the last game of the non-Souness era at Liverpool I imagine (or maybe he arrived mid-season from Boro the following campaign?) but the first time I saw Moenchengladbach in the flesh was less than ten years after Rome and Souness was playing against them as Rangers player-manager in one of the most intense UEFA Cup ties ever.


                        Originally posted by tee rex View Post
                        Injuries and surprise selections permitting, the 2018 final will probably feature players from England, Scotland and Wales for the first time since 1985.

                        And we've had a Scotsman, Englishman and Welshman winning it with non-UK clubs between times.

                        I know Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney have all scored for English clubs since but two of those I'm talking about scored in the final for those foreign teams.

                        So I hope Andy Robertson repeats his feat v Brighton last week because Scotland is the odd one out. Can't really blame Paul Lambert for not scoring in the 97 final - Jürgen Kohler absolutely eviscerated him during and after a game once for daring to go over the half-way line looking for a goal because Dortmund were 4 up - but Steve Archibald is probably still hanging his head in shame along with rest of Barca's team of 86.

                        John Robertson, 1980 - last Scot to score in the final but ...
                        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 20-05-2018, 17:33. Reason: ... I know Milan wore all-white in 2007 but it still stands.

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                          ... but can you name ...

                          (1) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who played for a Scottish club at any point in his career before or after (played - not managed)?

                          (2) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who scored against the Scotland national team at any point in his career before or after?

                          (3) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who scored at Hampden at any point in his career before or after?

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                            I don’t know any of the answers off the top of my head, but the answer to 3 could change after next weekend if Salah manages to score - having previously netted at Hampden for Egypt v Belarus in an Olympic group game in 2012.

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                              You're fucking kidding me, TRLB.

                              Nope - just checked Wiki and you're not.

                              Nearly six years on and that game is still taunting me. Fucking hell.

                              I was at the double-header the previous Thursday (Morocco v Honduras followed by Japan v Spain), the women's quarter-final the following Thursday (France v Sweden) and the most painful game of my life on the Sunday in-between (Brechin City v post-liquidation Rangers in their debut in the lower leagues). Work was crazy and I didn't really have time to go to the other Olympics game for which I had tickets. But off we went to Hampden on the afternoon of Wednesday 1st August because I had never seen any team from Egypt and I had seen Belarus at full and u-21 international level so wanted to complete the set.

                              Parked a lot closer than usual coz the crowd was minimal. Reached the turnstiles ten mins before kick-off and laughed smugly at the idiots who hadn't bought tickets in advance and were in such a long queue outside the adjacent Portakabins that there was no way they would see the first half hour of the game.

                              Got to the turnstile and realised I'd left the tickets at home.

                              Couldn't bring myself to become one of those people I'd been mocking or to pay twice for the same game ... and took it as a sign I should get back to the work I should have been doing.

                              Cut our losses - and my nose off to spite my face - and went back to the car so I could get back to my work asap.

                              Got back to the car and they were just in the process of issuing me with a parking ticket. Because I'd been rushing I hadn't seen the temporary no-parking sign at the entrance to the street full of residents who weren't looking forward to the Olympics.

                              I still have the tickets. The match tickets.

                              And now this.

                              And now the worst boot to the balls of the whole sorry episode.

                              Still, it's not as if I'm the kinda person who cares if he's seen a European Cup final scorer scoring in the flesh. It's not as if Salah's goal in an Olympic football tournament would have meant much to me ... it's not as if I go around memorising, listing and CHERISHING WITH EVERY FIBRE OF MY BEING seeing goals scored by blokes who have or will score in the Champions League final ...

                              Fucking hell. Get your money on Mo becoming the first man since Saint Pierino of Prati to score a hat-trick in the final ...

                              Although I did see James Milner scoring a penalty against Bordeaux at Anfield in 2015.
                              Last edited by Alex Anderson; 20-05-2018, 19:57. Reason: I've just dug out the tickets and posted a pic of them on Twitter

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                                Fuck - sorry Alex. If I'd known that was such a painful memory I'd never have chosen to pick at your mental scabs. On a less frustrating note, I was also at the Morocco v Honduras, Japan v Spain double header.

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                                  Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                                  ... but can you name ...

                                  (1) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who played for a Scottish club at any point in his career before or after (played - not managed)?
                                  You mentioned him in that earlier post you just linked to - it's the White Feather, isn't it?

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                                    Yes, TRLB - correct sir. Fabrizio Ravanelli of Dundee and, less famously, Juventus. Scored their goal in the 96 final v Ajax (Juventus's goal, that is) ... and take a couple of hundred bonus points for actually reading that other post of mine. You're a braver man than most ...

                                    Glad you were there in 2012. Even gladder you remembered your tickets because - well - sheesh! - take it from me ...

                                    Aye - we saw the likes of Jordi Alba and Juan Mata that day - both scored in the final of Euro 2012 just a few weeks earlier ... but those buggers didn't score in front of us did they. No! Selfish.

                                    But a couple of years previously - and in the opposite stand - I did get to see Iniesta scoring his first international goal since the World Cup final. So I can't complain. Too much ...

                                    Okay, it'd have been nicer if he'd scored in one of the four Champions League finals he played in but ... [Leave it, Alex. Just leave it. Take a deep breath, put down the Biro, step away from the jotter full of lists - and just move on ...]
                                    Last edited by Alex Anderson; 20-05-2018, 23:47. Reason: Isco played too. So if he scores on Saturday I won't be bothered that he didn't score at Hampden. Won't even care. Nope.

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                                      Incidentally, there's something about the endowment effect (as it's known in behavioural economics) in that memory.

                                      Imagine you'd been on your way to the match with (say) £70 cash in your pocket to buy a couple of tickets. But when you parked, you found you'd lost the money somewhere on the way. Would you buy a couple of tickets on your credit card? Studies suggest that most people would. But if they lost tickets, most people wouldn't. Weird, huh?

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                                        If I had £70 for every time I experienced the endowment effect ...

                                        Nice one, Kevin S. That's pretty darn fascinating. And thanks for giving me a way of possibly forgiving myself for that one.

                                        The work I had hanging over me felt like the deciding factor that day. But the fact I'd already been to a couple of games in that tournament (and would be attending another in the women's comp) definitely weakened my resolve too.

                                        However, missing the start of any game does my nut in like few other annoyances in life - especially when anorak motivations are heavily responsible for you being there at all.

                                        Salah didn't score til the 56th minute so I'd definitely have got in on time for his goal. But is there a part of me, hoisted by my own anal retention, which thinks that I couldn't have put him on the list of European Cup/Champions League final scorers I've seen scoring in the flesh because another part of me would think I hadn't really "been" to the game if I'd missed the first five minutes ...?

                                        I think I might over-complicate these things. Christ, ye can't spend yer whole life regretting every game ye huvnae attended because someone who might score in a Champions League, Euros or World Cup final in the distant future might score in front of you.

                                        BUT WHY TEH FUCK DID ANDY ROBERTSON NOT SCORE IN ANY OF THE FOUR QUEEN'S PARK GAMES I SAW LATER THAT SEASON??!!! I WANT HIM TO SCORE ON SATURDAY COZ HE'S SCOTTISH BUT I DON'T COZ HE NEVER ...

                                        Aye. Anyway. The attendance at that Egypt-Belarus game was less than 9,000 in a 52k capacity stadium yet the whole thing would have been less traumatic had it been a complete sell-out.

                                        Being forced to confront how little you want to get into a game makes one feel like he is the real sell-out.

                                        As, will, retrospectively, if Robertson scores on Saturday, deciding not to go to a Scotland-England "friendly" at Parkhead because you want to prove the Euro 2016 qualifier a few days earlier was more important and that you're all about supporting Scotland rather than hating England ... and Andy Robertson gets our consolation.
                                        Last edited by Alex Anderson; 21-05-2018, 08:17. Reason: ... or the Scottish Cup semi the following season where he played for Dundee United at Ibrox ...

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                                          God, I really know how to kick the momentum out of a thread. Sorry. Blame Kevin S for starting me on one.

                                          Originally posted by Alex Anderson View Post
                                          ... can you name ...

                                          (1) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who played for a Scottish club at any point in his career before or after (played - not managed)?

                                          (2) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who scored against the Scotland national team at any point in his career before or after?

                                          (3) The last ECCC/UCL final scorer who scored at Hampden at any point in his career before or after?
                                          Third rate les bleus got (1); Fabrizio Ravanelli ...

                                          Just a few more days to get (2) & (3) before Andy Robertson changes all the answers ... (every Scotland player has an own goal in them)

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                                            (2) İlkay Gündoğan?

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                                              Though he's also a plausible (3). So I dunno.

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                                                Ah, is he the (3), and Bale the (2)?

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                                                  (3) is İlkay Gündoğan, Kevin - correct - 2013 pen for Dortmund v Bayern at Wembley and winner for Germany in 3-2 win over Scotland, Euro 2016 qualifier, Hampden, 2015 (I WAS THERE!!!!)

                                                  (2) Not Bale I'm afraid. Good shout though. He did score a brace against Scotland in Cardiff in a 2014 World Cup qualifier but someone else has scored since in the ECCC/UCL final who also scored against Scotland.

                                                  Let's face - if ye've played against Scotland ye've scored against us.

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                                                    Though Scotland apparently managed to keep Mandžukić quiet in the WC2014 qualifiers against Croatia.

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