Holland or Netherlands?

[Kevin S]

There is a South Holland in England too, of course. Just for added larks.

And Holland-On-Sea in Essex. Holland FC play in orange, naturally.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

There is a South Holland in England too, of course. Just for added larks.

I'll see your South Holland and raise you Up Holland.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Southern Netherlands, not Belgian

Belgium only seceded in 1830. Luxembourg's sovereignty was only recognised later in the 19th century

Not to mention the Spanish Netherlands and Austrian Netherlands,

That link literally made my brain hurt.

[Sits]

Blimey, I see what you mean.

[Satchmo Distel]

Pat Holland.

[tee rex]

The people called Dutch usually aren't.

[3 Colours Red]

Born in Bury, sounds like a Londoner and played for Ireland.

I don't think this helps...

[Bored Of Education]

Born in Bury, sounds like a Londoner and played for Ireland.

I don't think this helps...

The Dutch are a confused bunch. The first verse of their anthem still pledges loyalty to the King of Spain

William of Nassau, scion
Of a Dutch and ancient line,
I dedicate undying
Faith to this land of mine.
A prince am I undaunted,
Of Orange, ever free,
To the king of Spain I've granted
A lifelong loyalty.

[anton pulisov]

That's an incorrect translation. The first line is actually:

William of Nassau am I, of German blood.

Well, that clears everything up.

[anton pulisov]

Yr Iseldiroedd in Welsh - another "the low lands".

Finally, an Irish word that somewhat resembles its Welsh equivalent: Ísiltír

[3 Colours Red]

Finally, an Irish word that somewhat resembles its Welsh equivalent: Ísiltír

I'm actually surprised they're that similar - the difference between Goidelic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx) and Brythonic (Welsh, Breton, Cornish) forms of Celtic is stark. Think of it like Hungarian to Finnish/Estonian - related, yes but knowing the former isn't going to help you much with the latter.

[Alex Anderson]

Arthur Holland ...who reffed the 1963 European Cup final at Wembley... which is where Ajax won their first European Cup in 1971 ... with Dick van Dijk scoring the first goal in a terrible cockney accent .... terrible because he was Dutch ... as was his team-mate that night Johan Cruyff... which is why UEFA said Dutchman John Blankenstein shouldn't reff the 1994 Champions League final, because Cruyff was Barca manager (but it was because Blankenstein was openly gay) ... so they replaced him with Philip Don, from England.

Strange for a Scot to know this stuff, Janik?

[anton pulisov]

Captained by hard as nails Velibor Vasovic who, 29 years later, attempted to take over the Yugoslav FA by force.

[Wouter D]

'it's all a bit silly, to be honest.'

I'll go with that too.

[Aspulliter]

Johan's view on the debate . . . . .

[Alex Anderson]

Captained by hard as nails Velibor Vasovic who, 29 years later, attempted to take over the Yugoslav FA by force.

Did he? Liking this, Antoine. First man to score in the final for two different clubs.

I don't care if we've gone off topic. I won't rest til every thread ends in European Cup final trivia.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

When you say tried to take over the Yuogoslav FA by force, do you mean armed coup style? I mean we could do that here. There's only about twenty blokes in blazers and a handful of secretaries in there. EIM's already got a balaclava.

[Various Artist]

Finally, an Irish word that somewhat resembles its Welsh equivalent: Ísiltír

Ah, yes – son of Elendil, is that the guy? Cut the One Ring off Sauron's hand then lost it in the river, right?

The Dutch fans singing "Hup Holland hup" are invariably the clinching argument for me that the whole debate is, indeed, a bit silly, because it pulls the rug out so annoyingly effortlessly from under the feet of those of us who are trying to remember to consistently use the 'proper' term for their country. And yes, the fact that nether lands literally means 'low countries' doesn't help either.

I have a private suspicion that the British tradition of calling the whole place Holland stems from a Victorian horror of saying the word "nether".

[Alex Anderson]

I have a private suspicion that the British tradition of calling the whole place Holland stems from a Victorian horror of saying the word "nether".

Thus the recent BBC4 documentary revealing that a Wilkie Collins short story about the "Dutch East Indies Company" was actually an essay on cottaging in 1850's London ("Marleybone", to be precise). I'm an open-minded guy but the "Hollandaise sauce" excerpts were just a bit too graphic.

[ursus arctos]

On Vasović and the Yugoslav FA, via Wiki

Vasović was one of the strongest and most persistent critics of the Yugoslav FA (FSJ) leadership, especially its longtime president Miljan Miljanić. His criticism particularly intensified after the breakup of SFR Yugoslavia. In 1997 Vasović founded an organization called Udruženje za razvoj i prosperitet jugoslovenskog fudbala (Organization for the Development and Prosperity of Yugoslav Football) through which he channeled his criticism of the FSJ.

Throughout the summer of 2000 he spoke at various town hall meetings throughout Serbia organized by the Yugoslav Left (JUL), a political party headed by the Yugoslav president Slobodan Milošević's wife Mira Marković. On October 10, 2000, five days after the overthrow of Milošević's regime in Serbia, Vasović and about a dozen bodyguards broke into the FSJ offices at Terazije square in downtown Belgrade. They attempted to use the post-overthrow chaos and confusion in order to gain an upper hand on the expected FA leadership change, however they were unsuccessful.

[Alex Anderson]

Country's in chaos and Velibor is thinking "Yes! Now's my chance". Brilliant. That's what I expect - nay - demand of a guy who achieves a unique European Cup final scoring feat in the same game he's commanding a defence conceding the last European Cup final hat-trick.

[ursus arctos]

To former Rochester Lancers legend (3 goals in 6 games) and teen idol Pierino Prati, no less.

[Alex Anderson]

Nice, ursus! I do love a pic of a long-haired lovely in a low-cut top, complete with vital statistics.

Rochester Lancers? Bloody hell. I'm immediately thinking of Gerd Muller at Fort Lauderdale, Cruyff at the Aztecs, George Best at both and Villa, Gerrard and Drogba in MLS ... the list of European Cup final scorers who end up in the US top flight must be, above all other things, long.

So I'm not doing it. I'm not. This is a thread about Holland/Netherlands. I've always tried to respect that.

Tommy Gemmell signed for the Miami Toros.

STOP IT!

[ursus arctos]

I was actually going to do all players who appeared in an European Cup Final and an official NASL match (there are lots), but your "challenge" is easier.

[Alex Anderson]

My game is nothing if not shallow...