Talent borrows, genius steals: Radio 4 Film Programme does Morrissey

[Haddock]

Very enjoyable Radio 4 Film Programme this week on and around the Morrissey early years biopic. First up is a quite fun and insightful interview with the director of the film. The highlight, though, is the following section in which Andrew Collins, who I don't generally have much time for but who is excellent here, talks about Smiths lyrics nicked from 60s British kitchen sink films and the Carry On school of comedies. The presenter of the programme, Antonia Quirke, happens to be a Mancunian Smiths fan, and it's all great for those of us who were fans at the time. Best moment for me was finding out where "Now I know how Joan of Arc felt" was lifted from.
Whatever you think of the Morrissey of today, there was a time when he was wrapped in genius.
Listen to the programme here

[Hot Pepsi]

Very enjoyable Radio 4 Film Programme this week on and around the Morrissey early years biopic. First up is a quite fun and insightful interview with the director of the film. The highlight, though, is the following section in which Andrew Collins, who I don't generally have much time for but who is excellent here, talks about Smiths lyrics nicked from 60s British kitchen sink films and the Carry On school of comedies. The presenter of the programme, Antonia Quirke, happens to be a Mancunian Smiths fan, and it's all great for those of us who were fans at the time. Best moment for me was finding out where "Now I know how Joan of Arc felt" was lifted from.
Whatever you think of the Morrissey of today, there was a time when he was wrapped in genius.
Listen to the programme here

He's a dick.

[Haddock]

I tend to agree, based on your use of the present tense. But what wonderful achievements in the past. The brilliance of the wordplay of those Smiths lyrics, the way he validated difference in the nasty and spiteful Brtiain of the 80s, the symbol he was of working-class autodidacticism. Wonderful. Whereas those of us who just post tedious comment after tedious comment on obscure message boards: what have we achieved? Gives you pause, doesn't it?

[Jah Womble]

A shade disappointing to learn that so many of his one-liners were 'lifted' - but there's a level of craft in sourcing and selecting, so I'll let it be. Indeed, I'll listen to this when I've a spare hour.

Morrissey may well be a dick now, but The Smiths made some fine records. Sometimes, remembering that can be difficult - but it's worth the effort.

[Satchmo Distel]

I doubt that many Smiths fans sought out the movies, as the documentary claims. Where would they have obtained them, for starters? Channel 4 showed them at various points but that's because there was already an interest.

However, those lyrics were an antidote to the pop of the time, and the unwise Third Reich allusions in New Order (intended or no). Marr's musical genius also gradually got funkier, contrary to the rather incoherent thesis that it was too "white" (although Morrissey's own posture was always tending to racism: "all reggae is vile" was as early as 1984).

[Satchmo Distel]

Oops, the radio presenter says Morrissey was "whipping gladioli" when she saw him in 1986. Nope, that phase ended in 1984.

[delicatemoth]

the way he validated difference in the nasty and spiteful Brtiain of the 80s, the symbol he was of working-class autodidacticism. Wonderful. Whereas those of us who just post tedious comment after tedious comment on obscure message boards: what have we achieved? Gives you pause, doesn't it?

Much as I like 'Hatful Of Hollow' ('Still Ill' and 'This Night Has Opened My Eyes' are indeed lyrically brilliant), we can't have this. One thing I, and I suspect most OTFers, have achieved is to not record an overtly racist song.

Bengali, Bengali
Bengali, Bengali
Oh, shelve your Western plans
And understand
That life is hard enough when you belong here (Morrissey, 'Bengali In Platforms', 1988)

Bear in mind this is in the context of him having cultivated the "I'm the only one who understands you" mystique that a fair number of young British Asians found as attractive as I and all the other forlorn white kids did. It was a really low song to write and release. I'm still baffled that he won that libel case against the NME. Why did they not just play that song in court?

[Benjm]

However, those lyrics were an antidote to the pop of the time, and the unwise Third Reich allusions in New Order (intended or no).

I'm not sure about that. The opposition between New Order and The Smiths was far more about the idealisation of going out and staying in, respectively. NO were far more outward looking, although Marr was clearly more on the same wavelength there than Morrissey was.

[Hot Pepsi]

Of course, The Smiths are important to popular music, especially in Britain. I just liked the juxtaposition of the well-thought out comment next to a not-well-thought-out epithet at 3 am.

[Jah Womble]

However, those lyrics were an antidote to the pop of the time, and the unwise Third Reich allusions in New Order (intended or no).

I think - unwise band-name choice aside - any Third Reich allusions had been left behind in Warsaw/early-Joy Division days.

Bernard Sumner's lyrics weren't really about anything: the majority seemed to play with a lexicon of about a dozen interchangeable rhyming words, mainly of one syllable. In some cases, this was effective - in many it was jarring. A song such as Thieves Like Us (which I know is popular with some on OTF) almost sounds as though it was made up on the spot, so quickly does it run out of lyrical ideas. There was some improvement around the time of Technique, however in interview, Sumner and cohorts have always suggested that it really didn't matter.

It doesn't of course - good music will carry the most banal of lyricism - although personally I prefer words that have been a little more consciously put together.

[Haddock]

Much as I like 'Hatful Of Hollow' ('Still Ill' and 'This Night Has Opened My Eyes' are indeed lyrically brilliant), we can't have this. One thing I, and I suspect most OTFers, have achieved is to not record an overtly racist song.

Bengali, Bengali
Bengali, Bengali
Oh, shelve your Western plans
And understand
That life is hard enough when you belong here (Morrissey, 'Bengali In Platforms', 1988)

Bear in mind this is in the context of him having cultivated the "I'm the only one who understands you" mystique that a fair number of young British Asians found as attractive as I and all the other forlorn white kids did. It was a really low song to write and release. I'm still baffled that he won that libel case against the NME. Why did they not just play that song in court?

You'll get no argument from me regarding how vile, to use a Morrissey epithet, that song and its lyrics are. From memory of the time it came out, Morrissey had so much invested in him by so many, me and my friends included, that he wasn't properly challenged on it. He should have been.
I guess my view is that his post-Smiths behaviour, including that song, doesn't negate his achievements (to use that word again). But I realise others have a different view, and I respect that.

[Satchmo Distel]

He also shows the limits of being an autodidact when that person is also a narcissist. A college education in the arts forces you to deal with new ideas and to formulate an argument. I don't think Morrissey has done these things since he left school.

[Patrick Thistle]

Oops, the radio presenter says Morrissey was "whipping gladioli" when she saw him in 1986. Nope, that phase ended in 1984.

I went to see him on 94 and he was deluged in gladioli. Fans walked in with armful of the stuff.

I wasn't a fan. I went with the yet-to-become-Mrs-Thistle and to her amusement asked what the deal was with the flowers.

[Hot Pepsi]

What *was* the deal with the flowers?

[Jah Womble]

The same as was the deal with the hearing aid.

[Hot Pepsi]

The same as was the deal with the hearing aid.

I don't know about the hearing aid

[Sean of the Shed]

Different takes on the hearing aid. Either it was worn in solidarity with a fan who wrote to him saying she was bullied for wearing one or it was in homage to Johnny Ray, who was partially deaf.

[Sean of the Shed]

A beginners guide to Morrissey.

[Hot Pepsi]

A beginners guide to Morrissey.

That's good.

I actually admire him for his strident stance on meat, tbh. It's not just an aesthetic he's trying to foist on people.