The all-encompassing TV thread.

[EIM]

'A flying kick to the head like Karate Kid'.

This place cracks me up sometimes.

Well it was meant to be slightly humorous. But being all official and OTFy for a minute, how else would you describe a kick with both feet off the ground that makes contact with someone's head?

[Jah Womble]

I'll have a look at it again later and get back to you.

Meanwhile, City go 3-0. This could go to five, six, anything...

[EIM]

Spinning bird kick!

[Jah Womble]

I'll concede that that doesn't look great.

'Orange', then.

[elguapo4]

Oddly "Liverpool hater " Gary Neville defended the challenge and Liverpool legend Carragher agreed with the ref

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Erm, why do they think this is harsh.

This is nothing like nani incident. ederson is directly in front of mane, and that's how he decided to go into a challenge. Nani didn't even know he was going to be in a challenge. There's a bit of a distinction between the two.

[Jah Womble]

4-0 - sweeping move, Sane buries it.

Wonder what odds you'd have been offered on that (final) score after twenty minutes?

[EIM]

Nani also didn't kick someone's head so hard he possibly fractured their cheekbone and jaw. But it was another instance of a dangerous high tackle that people looked to defend when really they shouldn't have.

I know it's against City, but it's still really really great to see Liverpool get a humping. I guess as a Manchester United fan who lived through the 80s, that will never go away.

[Lang Spoon]

Rumbled

[Jah Womble]

I'll concede it looks reckless, but still have to agree with Neville that 'level of injury sustained' cannot be seen as the measure of a foul. Which one or two on here seem to feel it should.

[elguapo4]

Klopp getting the usual soft questions from sky, Kim yung un gets harder challenges from the Korean media

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

To quickly recap nani was careless in that he didn't know that arbeloa was there but should probably have checked. That is punished by a free kick, and in the case of clattering the guy maybe a booking.

Reckless is when you know the guy is there and you put your foot up anyway, and is punished by a yellow card.

And excessive or dangerous play is when you know the guy is there and you do something like jump into the tackle with both feet off the ground and connect with the face with a full set of studs. That is a red card.

Its not about the scale of the injury. Mane could have missed ederson's hwad with his boot and it would still have been a red card

[EIM]

Aye. It was Real Madrid wasn't it? Bayern was Rafael? Either way it was a red card.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Except under the rules it isn't. It is an incident that simultaneously illustrated that most people don't have the slightest clue of the rules, and who just likes to see man utd players sent off.

I just saw graham poll having to explain to all of those people on the BT sport panel who were saying that it was a disgrace that Dele Alli was being investigated for what was a joke with his mate, that actually you're not allowed stick up your finger at anyone, precisely to avoid this situation of "intent." and that basically he's fucked under the laws. they rounded on him like it was his idea, or that it was him that forced dele Alli to do that.

[Jah Womble]

I also believe that Dele was goofing around with Walker - but that isn't the point. 'Don't be making obscene gestures on the pitch / in front of the referee / with a thousand cameras pointed at you / in such a way that it can be misinterpreted' is the point. Why former professionals wouldn't see that is beyond me.

Stoke / Utd on while I wait endlessly for somebody to come and fix a leak. I've no idea how much time has been played, however, because the BT on-screen 'clock' very helpfully just says '1st Half'.

[Patrick Thistle]

I could imagine a person who both had a thorough informed understanding of the law and still enjoyed seeing Man Utd players get sent off.

[Diable Rouge]

Union Jack Radio hoardings at Stoke - the John Redwood Hour, followed by the Vera Lynn Request Show?

[Toby Gymshorts]

I didn't watch the Liverpool game. I assume it was a fairly dull affair, with no goals nor talking points of any description?

Oh, oh I see. Well...

[Patrick Thistle]

Watching the Goal Rush on Channel 5 for the first time. S'alright.

[Ray de Galles]

Well done Morata for taking the lead :

Chelsea condemn anti-Semitic Alvaro Morata chant from fans at Leicester

[ad hoc]

Did you see the stuff about how Jogi Low and the German national team condemned their own fans after a game this week in the Czech Republic? Sounds like they did really well at not holding back and laying into them. More of this please (less racist chanting obviously, more direct condemnation of it when it occurs from the players and managers)

[Ray de Galles]

I didn't spot the original story but did see an article yesterday contrasting it with England players' and manager's silence over such things by some of their fans.

[G-Man]

Did you see the stuff about how Jogi Low and the German national team condemned their own fans after a game this week in the Czech Republic? Sounds like they did really well at not holding back and laying into them. More of this please (less racist chanting obviously, more direct condemnation of it when it occurs from the players and managers)

It was fantastic. The DFB pointed out, rightly, that these people were not "fans", and bought their tickets on the market, not through the them, and therefore were not in the block reserved for Germany fans. But that was by way of contextualisation (and telling UEFA that these people were not in their control). The condemnation by Löw, players (Hummels was especially good) and DFB was sincere and uncompromising.

It was no PR speak when Löw said that he wasn't "saddened" by the racist chanting but had "anger in my belly" about it. Too right. It's not good enough to be sad about racism. We must be angry. The huge banner unfurled in Stuttgart against Norway was a great demonstration by the fans as well.

Anyway, back to the Karate Git and whether kicking a player with a raised leg is a yellow card offense.

[EIM]

"The DFB pointed out, rightly, that these people were not "fans","

I always think this is a bit of a cop out. Not to take away from the excellent stance of course, but they are fans, and they need to be treated and tackled as such.

[jameswba]

The stance is excellent. I also wish clubs, players, national associations, journalists etc in central/eastern Europe would adopt similar when racism happens. I could name a dozen instances in the Czech Rep and Slovakia alone where there's been audible racism during a game, but the players of the club(s) concerned still go and clap the section it's come from afterwards. Then you read in the newspaper the next day about how good the atmosphere was.

Incidentally, the Daniel Taylor article on the Germany incident cites reports that the people responsible were mostly fans of Dynamo Dresden and other clubs from the former east. Has this been verified?