The all-encompassing TV thread.

[Ray de Galles]

Good points both on the need to allow citing of players like Bennett (especially when retrospective video evidence is now allowed with regard to diving) and also the comparison between the opprobrium and length of ban Masuaku’s spitting engendered when set against the response to the potentially career-wrecking foul on Sane.

I see at least one paper has taken up the same issue



It would be nice if Warnock could be punished for the actions of his teams too, given that he is always the driving force behind their deliberate violent foul play.

[Nefertiti2]

Eduardo's injury which ended his career at the top level "analysed" by Alan Hansen

This time the defender at least got a red card. "he nearly gets the ball" "He's mistimed the tacKle" "it's clumsy as much as anything."

[Jon]

And what's Danny Murphy on? 'VAR helped WBA because it made the game stop-start.' Yes, Danny, and it really helped WBA to have a goal disallowed and a penalty given against them.

Didn't see that. What a knob. Liverpool were poor in that game, VAR or no VAR. First half we bossed it. Second half they came back into it but West Brom were essentially playing with 9 men in the last 10 minutes, with Evans and Livermore both on the pitch but really struggling. Is he going to blame VAR on Liverpool's failure to score in that period of the game? There were no VAR stoppages in the last 10 minutes or so, as far as I can remember. Liverpool just continued to be not very good.

On a wider note, not all but most of the pundits I've listened to seem to be just pushing a self-interested party line of 'it'll get better in time.' I think I heard it's definitely going to be used in the World Cup too which I find incredible.

[Satchmo Distel]

Another reason to give the World Cup a miss, then...

[G-Man]

Warnock is a caveman. His "This Is England" statement feeds the idiotic exceptionalism which seduced a nation to vote for Brexit.

It strikes me than in that photo above, Bennett looks a lot like Vinny Jones. And the fetishisation of the thuggish likes of Jones, who was turned into a cult figure rather than an example of how not to be, has kept alive this thug culture with Warnock embodies with his comment.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Warnock is a caveman. His "This Is England" statement feeds the idiotic exceptionalism which seduced a nation to vote for Brexit.

It strikes me than in that photo above, Bennett looks a lot like Vinny Jones. And the fetishisation of the thuggish likes of Jones, who was turned into a cult figure rather than an example of how not to be, has kept alive this thug culture with Warnock embodies with his comment.

But it was Malaysia not England.

[Ray de Galles]

Ha ha, applause!

[Patrick Thistle]

At the game it was hard to see the challenge in real time. I was behind the goal Sane was running towards. He was in open space having left several players for dead and then seemed to run towards Bennett when if he'd have come towards the goal he would have been free for a one on one.

Several times Man City players did this. Run across the 18 yard line when getting closer and shooting was an option. I thought they were looking to draw the inevitable foul and set up a "safe" shooting chance. If that is their tactic then I'm not sure how they can claim to need protection. They're choosing to tempt opponents into clobbering them.

That's not to excuse Bennett. He clearly went for the man and the Cardiff fans I was with thought it was going to be a red. I thought it should have been.

[Patrick Thistle]

Perhaps a solution to thuggery would be: you're suspended for as long as the guy you crippled is out. Roy Keane would have had his career end when he crippled Haaland.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

You do know that haaland played for norway three days later, and ultimately retired due to issues with his other knee, that long predated any tackle by keane.

[anton pulisov]

He also tried to sue Keane later for ending his career, but he had no case, seeing as he had written in his book that the Keane tackle had nothing to do with his career ending injury.

[ian.64]

Lawrenson on MOTD2 looks like an old age pensioner who's popped down to the shops wearing his granddaughter's gloves cause he can't find his own

A post on Twitter summed him up nicely: 'Mark Lawrenson: the voice of Dignitas'

[Ray de Galles]

Several times Man City players did this. Run across the 18 yard line when getting closer and shooting was an option. I thought they were looking to draw the inevitable foul and set up a "safe" shooting chance. If that is their tactic then I'm not sure how they can claim to need protection. They're choosing to tempt opponents into clobbering them.

Does that ring true to you though? Players of the calibre of Man City's would choose not to shoot and instead hope to be fouled, when they're playing a bog standard D2 team?! Especially when they will have known from that team's manager's reputation and from scouting them recently that violent fouls are likely?

That's not to excuse Bennett. He clearly went for the man and the Cardiff fans I was with thought it was going to be a red. I thought it should have been.

Friends of mine were at the game and were shocked to hear applause for Bennett's fouls, not only for the one on Sane (where there might have been the excuse that in parts of the ground the seriousness of the foul couldn't have been obvious) but also for his one on an 18 year old when the game was all but over and saw him sent off and suspended.

[Patrick Thistle]

Yeah I did say the people I was with. The bloke behind me cheered.

Didn't realise that about Haaland. I guess that could go on the "facts that everyone knows but are actually wrong" thread. Roy would still have missed a few games in his career though.

[Snake Plissken]

The problem with the "suspended for the length of the injury" is that it introduces a variable. If I go to break a leg and miss and hit a toe, then I've got a shorter suspension. I swing a punch and miss, does that mean no harm, no foul?

[Toby Gymshorts]

Imagine cheering someone for injuring an opponent. I can't get my head around that.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The other thing is that it only punishes people after they've committed a terrible foul which has had a particular outcome. It's real after the horse has bolted stuff. The rules are supposed to cover this by making a range of fouls into red card offences, because this sort of thing might happen. However if a referee gives a red card for any of these, when there hasn''t been a broken bone, then the referee gets absolutely murdered by the commentators, pundits, managers, fans etc. Think of all the times you've seen someone commit an awful foul and the co-commentator saying it was only a yellow card.

[Patrick Thistle]

Does that ring true to you though? Players of the calibre of Man City's would choose not to shoot and instead hope to be fouled, when they're playing a bog standard D2 team?! Especially when they will have known from that team's manager's reputation and from scouting them recently that violent fouls are likely?

Yes. It does ring true because they played their game plan. They played the deep possession stuff. They played the multiple overlap. They played the pass back if there's no easy forward option. They had the two central defenders on the edge of the box in line with the six yard line at every goal kick. And they played their big name players. So why wouldn't they go with the game plan of win a free kick on the edge of the box and let Kevin have a pop?

Cardiff are third in the Championship and hardly "bog standard". I don't know how dirty they are compared to everyone else but I've not seen Joe Bennett sent off for kicking people in the other games I've been to this season. I don't know if the scouting report would have predicted that.

[Patrick Thistle]

Imagine cheering someone for injuring an opponent. I can't get my head around that.

They cheered him for stopping the run with the ball that had already left several players for dead. I doubt anyone realised it was quite that brutal at the time. They might still have cheered anyway, I don't know. Some football fans are horrible people. Surely that isn't news to you?

[Patrick Thistle]

The problem with the "suspended for the length of the injury" is that it introduces a variable. If I go to break a leg and miss and hit a toe, then I've got a shorter suspension. I swing a punch and miss, does that mean no harm, no foul?

The variable is why it would work, imo. There's a salutary warning to everyone in the professional game. Imagine seeing a fellow pro at training every day knowing he's not going to feature because a stupid challenge did in an opponent's knee.

The variable exists elsewhere. You text while driving and are caught on camera, fine and possible ban. You text while driving and hit a cyclist, killing them, five years in prison. What's the difference in the action? Nothing. You're punished based on the outcome.

[Amor de Cosmos]

I guess one problem might be that it's frequently never completely clear when, or if, an injury has healed. Does the ban end when the injured party returns to training or plays his first match? Suppose he wasn't ready, and is re-injured a game or so later, suppose it eventually ends his career, does the offender get commensurate punishment?

[Ray de Galles]

Yes. It does ring true because they played their game plan. They played the deep possession stuff. They played the multiple overlap. They played the pass back if there's no easy forward option. They had the two central defenders on the edge of the box in line with the six yard line at every goal kick. And they played their big name players. So why wouldn't they go with the game plan of win a free kick on the edge of the box and let Kevin have a pop?

Because that's hardly the way they play usually and there's even less reason to play that way against a lesser opponent than usual, especially one with a deserved reputation for over-physical play (to put it mildly). Do you really think a Man City side of the attacking talent we know they have is going to play for set pieces?!

Cardiff are third in the Championship and hardly "bog standard". I don't know how dirty they are compared to everyone else but I've not seen Joe Bennett sent off for kicking people in the other games I've been to this season. I don't know if the scouting report would have predicted that.

Adjective

bog standard

(Britain slang, pejorative) Utterly basic, ordinary, or standard; unremarkable, unexceptional, etc.


That sounds like a perfect description of their current side. You have to remember I still have friends who watch them regularly and have mentioned the dull, prosaic nature of their football (I believe the commentary on yesterday's game said they had competed the lowest number of passes of any team in D2) as well as their gameplan of kicking opponents out of games. Fans of other D2 sides have mentioned it frequently too. This would definitely come up in scouting reports.

It sounds as if you don't believe Warnock's reputation is deserved despite the fact he has demonstrated his MO at every team he's ever managed, varying only in the exact degree of foul play he has his teams deploy.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Some football fans are horrible people. Surely that isn't news to you?

Unfortunately not.

[seand]

Pep's game plan being to manufacture set pieces is a novel interpretation of his tactics it must be said.

[Amor de Cosmos]

It sounds as if you don't believe Warnock's reputation is deserved despite the fact he has demonstrated his MO at every team he's ever managed, varying only in the exact degree of foul play he has his teams deploy.

TBH I don't believe he's managed teams that way in some time. Not I think at Palace. Certainly not while he was at QPR, we played the most entertaining football we have in years while he was manager. He remains the only coach who's succeeded in getting Adel Taarabt to play to his capabilities for example. He said, at that time, that his wife wouldn't stand for the kind of behavior he used to employ during games, as it was a dreadful example to their kids. Cardiff didn't look particularly ugly a couple weeks back when we beat them at LR, and he's obviously been able to remind Junior Hoilett he's supposed to be a football player, which none of our recent managers had been able to do, but I haven't paid them much notice apart from that. I'll bow to GO so far as stint at Rotherham went, and certainly deplore his comment from yesterday without, of course, knowing the exact context.