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    #51
    Originally posted by Bruno
    The Glee version of "Don't Stop Believin'" is auto-tuned to fuck. At least Steve Perry could actually do it. I recall hearing a live version of the song that's better than the recording.



    I mentioned the Sopranos because it certainly had an impact on the song's popularity in the US. I didn't know it was dramatically different in the UK.



    I used to be high-brow about these things, too, but anymore I only have enough energy to respect bands that can generate a hit or two that lasts. All of those bands you mention wrote some decent tunes. I care far less about the image they might have presented. If I cared about that I'd have to swear off pop, because I pretty much hate the imagery without exception. It's 50 different varieties of put-on. But image seems to weigh into rock criticism a hell of a lot.

    Speaking of simpering, that's honestly how a lot of Brit pop from the 80s struck me. As for by the numbers, I'm pretty sure Journey were in earnest. Steve Perry certainly was, he's a total cheeseball. But it's sweet.
    I guess it's fine for those who place straight-up musical competence over and above all else - bands like Journey simply do what's expected of them, no more, no less.

    Britpop (mid-nineties, in fact) threw up some garbage, I agree, but at least it provided a scene that had a few personalities and 'faces' emerge from it. I kind of like pop music to do that - I appreciate that this isn't what yer US stadium bands are 'for', as such. (NB Hot Pepsi, I wasn't actively dissing any of those acts - I've liked stuff by Boston and Toto, for sure. Just not Journey.)

    NB I don't think that Abba are a punch-bag at all these days, are they? Call it revisionism if you like, but I think that Benny and Bjorn's pop 'genius' is generally accepted across the board nowadays.

    Put me down as another for the Ghost In You fan club - great song. Think Pretty in Pink remains the Furs' best-known moment, though.
    Last edited by Jah Womble; 27-07-2017, 10:23.

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      #52
      Originally posted by Bruno
      More stuff I didn't know. Seems like it snowballed. Or maybe there was some corporate masterminding.
      We've definitely been here before re Don't Stop Believin' - I remember going through OCC data to chart the song's growing popularity in the UK pre Glee and Joe McElderry covering it on X Factor. A key staging post was extensive use in an episode of Scrubs, which was briefly popular over here on the Paramount Comedy channel.

      It's archived in the WSC forum part of the site somewhere, but my rudimentary searching skills have come to naught.

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        #53
        Here you go

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          #54
          I must be remembering Don't Stop Believing wrong, because every time I try to sing it to myself I keep getting Van Halen's Jump

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            #55
            From CBS News' White House Correspondent

            Members of the band Journey were just spotted in the White House briefing room. That is all.

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              #56
              That's weird

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                #57
                Originally posted by Bruno
                More stuff I didn't know. Seems like it snowballed. Or maybe there was some corporate masterminding.
                I remember thinking it was pretty cheeky that the Giants were snagging a tune off of the 2005 Chicago White Sox, even though Journey are from San Francisco.

                But they played it late in the 2010 regular season, and then found Steve Perry in the crowd (apparently he's a season ticket holder). Perry was losing his shit that they were playing his song.

                He's also a graduate of the Roger Daltrey School of Not Ageing Like Shit.

                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                Should I Stay Or Should I Go was less of a hit than London Calling on original release but obviously overtook it when the re-release made #1.
                Their biggest hit in the US, by far, remains Rock The Casbah.

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                  #58
                  Yeah. The kid and I were talking about that the other day. When you look at The Clash's entire oeuvre, we both reckon Rock the Casbah sits somewhere in the middle — at best. How it got to be their only US Top Ten hit I'll never know.

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                    #59
                    I always thought that Rock the Casbah's success here was down to the video and the Gulf War

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                      #60
                      I seem to remember "Rock the Casbah" along with Elton John's "Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting" being on a list of songs which were banned from being played by BBC radio during the (original) Gulf War.

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                        #61
                        Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                        Yeah. The kid and I were talking about that the other day. When you look at The Clash's entire oeuvre, we both reckon Rock the Casbah sits somewhere in the middle — at best. How it got to be their only US Top Ten hit I'll never know.
                        It had a video on MTV just as MTV was coming into being, IIRC. None of their earlier stuff did. At least, not in heavy rotation.

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                          #62
                          Oooh, it seems I might've been mistaken, apparently "Rock the Casbah" wasn't on the BBC banned list, https://sarahirving.wordpress.com/20...-banned-songs/

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                            #63
                            The Clash did a big US tour around 1982 that was hyped and documented. Probably helped to split them up by making them too much of the corporate plaything they were meant to despise. That plus the drugs.

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                              #64
                              Rachid Taha's cover is better than the original. He found the lyrics a bit patronising and let's face it, they are.

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by Bruno
                                "The Ghost in You" is one of my favorite pop songs from the 80s. Beautiful.

                                80s music seems to be doing well these days. I've sort of gotten in the habit of browsing the first dozen comments under Youtube uploads, and it's practically a given under 80s hits you'll find several "why isn't music any good anymore"'s. Just tried it with "Ghost in You" and sure enough:

                                I've found there's an awful lot of this sentiment getting expressed. Try it yourself!

                                As I've said before, the people that say things like that are wrong, but I understand why they think that. There is good music being made now, but it's less likely to be on commercial radio and it's not on MTV because MTV doesn't do that anymore. (BTW, the reason MTV stopped showing videos is because the ratings dropped and/or they couldn't capture the ratings for blocks of videos.) There is also the hypothesis that the history of rock basically ended with My Bloody Valentine and everything since is just recycling ideas from before. That might be true. If so, I'm ok with it. I'm still finding songs or bands from the past that I didn't hear at the time and a lot of the new stuff that recycles the old ideas is still pretty good. People who are into folk music or jazz or classical don't seem to mind that there's nothing really "new" in their genre. So I don't know why rock and pop should be different.

                                And, I've got over my rockist tendencies and have some "bubblegum" pop on my mix. Sometimes a good song is a good song.

                                But I fucking hate Abba straight-up. Music, image, Mamma Mia!, the whole lot. Everything about it seems either smug or ironic for its own sake. Fuck that.


                                Another note on Journey et al.
                                It's true that all those songs started as melodies on piano or guitar. I don't know if any band ever sat down to write a "Power Ballad." But once they got in the studio, the band and/or the producers and/or the record company saw to it that it became one. Hence a lot of the 90s bands specifically sought to reject "overproduction." Which is why MTV Unplugged became a thing. I recall an interview with Paul Westerberg where he said that he wishes he could rerecord some of the early Replacements music and strip out some of the extra guitar parts etc. And I never would have thought of The Replacements has "overproduced" but I guess he and others were caught in the same wave of wanting things to sound simpler and perhaps more appropriate for small venues.

                                Also, it's not worth getting worked up about shitty bands.

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                                  #66
                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  I always thought that Rock the Casbah's success here was down to the video and the Gulf War
                                  The video maybe. But it appears it was their biggest hit worldwide (#3 in both Australia and NZ for example) so the Gulf War would not altogether explain it.
                                  Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 27-07-2017, 17:12.

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                                    #67
                                    Originally posted by tracteurgarçon View Post
                                    Oooh, it seems I might've been mistaken, apparently "Rock the Casbah" wasn't on the BBC banned list, https://sarahirving.wordpress.com/20...-banned-songs/
                                    Wow that's a long list. The only one I can remember being widely mentioned at the time is Imagine. I also recall the finally episode of Blackadder being delayed for several weeks by PBS.

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                                      #68
                                      Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                                      The video maybe. But it appears it was their biggest hit worldwide (#3 in both Australia and NZ for example) so the Gulf War would altogether explain it.
                                      The Gulf War was eight years later.

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                                        #69
                                        Perhaps my perception of "irony" comes from the way ABBA is frequently enjoyed today - through the musical, or karaoke, etc. A lot of disco is often thought of that way too, but maybe I mostly just see that angle on it because I don't know anyone who can dance very well. Real disco aficionados, if there are any left, don't think of it that way.

                                        But I can't look at the outfits in a performance like this one ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unfzfe8f9NI ) and imagine they were being 100% earnest.

                                        Also, I find their sound cloying and irritating.
                                        Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 27-07-2017, 17:52.

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                                          #70
                                          Townsend also picked SOS as his Show and Tell on Radcliffe and Maconie. Abba's production stands up remarkably well; better than much 80s pop; the melodies were deliberately throwbacks to Beatles and Beach Boys songwriting, which places them out of their own time period into something eternal.

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                                            #71
                                            (Is ABBA's look any more outlandish than Jimi Hendrix, the king of authenticity, at Monterey Pop?)

                                            We're dealing with real marginalia here, but yes it was different in a couple of respects. First it wasn't specially designed for Hendrix. The militaria was from used clothing stores, such as 'Granny Takes a Trip' which were commonplace in the Carnaby Street and Kings Road at the time. Second he frequently wore the same stuff off-stage as on — as did many performers from that period. A good mate of mine saw him on the Circle Line in '67 same jacket, similar crushed velvet pants. ABBAs' gear OTOH was clearly made as stage costume. and probably worn only once or twice. There's a significant difference.

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                                              #72


                                              I had a shirt almost exactly like that — except it was white. Ditto the pants — green for me. Available at multiple stalls on Kensington Market, and elsewhere, at the time. The vest was middle-eastern I think, he wore it frequently on and off stage. Trust me, they really weren't outlandish if you were British teenager in the late 60s.

                                              Here he is with Brian Jones offstage at Monterey wearing his military jacket:

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                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post


                                                I had a shirt almost exactly like that — except it was white. Ditto the pants — green for me. Available at multiple stalls on Kensington Market, and elsewhere, at the time. The vest was middle-eastern I think, he wore it frequently on and off stage. Trust me, they really weren't outlandish if you were British teenager in the late 60s.

                                                Here he is with Brian Jones offstage at Monterey wearing his military jacket:

                                                They were all on LSD and shrooms and stuff. What was ABBA's excuse.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                                  They were all on LSD and shrooms and stuff. What was ABBA's excuse.
                                                  Too many herring and meatballs.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Originally posted by Bruno
                                                    Not outlandish among you young hippie loons, no, but a lot of the country wasn't that.
                                                    If you eliminate everyone over 25–30 much of it was, and many of those who weren't wished they were. Only work kept them respectable. The "Weekend Hippie" was very much a British phenomenon. Monday they all had Friday on their mind. Even those of us who had cool-ish jobs had to compromise a bit. This is me a month or so after I arrived in Canada in 1972. It was as straight as I got back then:

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