How Does the Recording Industry Still Make Money?

[Snake Plissken]

U2 sold (checks wiki) $10 million worth of tickets for last weeks Croke Park gig alone. That isn't including merchandise, fan memberships and so on. They are averaging $6m in ticket sales per show. No wonder the buggers can stump up for a new pitch for Hertha Berlin.

At least they give you a spectacle for the money. Comedians playing enormodomes are absolutely raking it in. When Peter Kay did his long runs at single arenas, he was probably clearing a quarter of a million in profit on tickets per night, simply because he twigged that staying in one arena for a while would massively reduce his costs. (He sold a million tickets for his 2010 tour alone, across 113 shows in just 12 venues and produced a DVD.) Even a smaller act, say Sarah Millican can do a single arena tour and end up a millionaire.

[Benjm]

It also leads to imaginative pairings such as Earth Wind & Fire with Chicago whom I saw in Fort Lauderdale.

Van Halen and Kool And The Gang was another such pairing I noticed recently.

[Satchmo Distel]

In agreement with the 'live' aspect of being a musician being a key point here: artists on major labels can make an absolute fortune from a tour - certainly far more than they might from sales/recording revenue. (The aspect of more-accessible DIY recording/production facilities is also a relevant point.)


Have to say that I really don't see what's 'lazy' about using the radio to source music - I'd be blissfully unaware of half the new/current acts that I now enjoy if it weren't for 6Music, CDNX or other online stations. (The fact that others on this thread talk of listening to little after the nineties suggests to me that one or two more should perhaps be doing this.)

Fair point. 6Music also have a function called My Music that enables listeners to create playlists from content they hear, and also "You'll get better music recommendations based on what you add. And you can listen in full on Deezer, Spotify or YouTube.." A bit like Amazon's recommendations based on your browsing and buying.

OTOH it makes us all into profiled consumers.

[Jah Womble]

That's what I'm trying to avoid - the 'if you tolerate this, Florence & The Machine will be next'-aspect of online music-sourcing. It makes my blood run cold.

I mean, yes, I tend to like edgy, post-punk guitar bands - but I don't want every artist I encounter via the web to sound like this. If it hadn't been for 6 or CDNX, I (probably) wouldn't know about Ghostpoet, Bonobo, Hempolics, NoMBe, RTK, Kate Tempest, Loyle Carner...and a whole bunch of other stuff to which I now listen regularly.

[Hot Pepsi]

Yeah, but think of all the garbage you've had to wade through (not Garbage. Garbage is pretty good) to find those. They other value of online music is that you can skip songs that you know you don't like after a few seconds. Cant' do that on the radio.

[Hot Pepsi]

In agreement with the 'live' aspect of being a musician being a key point here: artists on major labels can make an absolute fortune from a tour - certainly far more than they might from sales/recording revenue. (The aspect of more-accessible DIY recording/production facilities is also a relevant point.)


Have to say that I really don't see what's 'lazy' about using the radio to source music - I'd be blissfully unaware of half the new/current acts that I now enjoy if it weren't for 6Music, CDNX or other online stations. (The fact that others on this thread talk of listening to little after the nineties suggests to me that one or two more should perhaps be doing this.)

I don't know those stations, but I know that regular commercial stations are now programmed by centralized computer algorithms intended to find the mix that the most people can tolerate while shopping without being so alienated as to question the meaning of existence and the point of shopping. And heavily influenced by what amounts to legal payola.

On the other hand, if you find a station - terrestrial or online - that is programmed - "curated" as the kids annoyingly insist on saying - by an actual human being of some experience and taste, then maybe you'll find some good stuff. If not stuff you like, then at least interesting stuff.
I've been clued into a lot of stuff by reading recommendations right here on OTF. Usually, I don't fall in love with it, but it's never terrible and always at least interesting or educational.

[Lang Spoon]

U2 sold (checks wiki) $10 million worth of tickets for last weeks Croke Park gig alone. That isn't including merchandise, fan memberships and so on. They are averaging $6m in ticket sales per show. No wonder the buggers can stump up for a new pitch for Hertha Berlin.

At least they give you a spectacle for the money. Comedians playing enormodomes are absolutely raking it in. When Peter Kay did his long runs at single arenas, he was probably clearing a quarter of a million in profit on tickets per night, simply because he twigged that staying in one arena for a while would massively reduce his costs. (He sold a million tickets for his 2010 tour alone, across 113 shows in just 12 venues and produced a DVD.) Even a smaller act, say Sarah Millican can do a single arena tour and end up a millionaire.

The whole comedians packing out arenas for weeks on end thing really perplexes me. Stand up or (worst thing ever, the League of Gentlemen live DVD was the most cringe "guess you had to be there" thing I've ever sat down for) tv sketch shows on tour really need a smallish venue to work properly. Pawky Scots sitcom duo Still Game did a reunion arena tour of Scotchland a year or two back, sold out the Glasgow Hydro for like 21 straight gigs. The bowl holds 13000 or so, those numbers are pretty scary.

[Ray de Galles]

Van Halen and Kool And The Gang was another such pairing I noticed recently.

I saw that bill in Orlando in 2012. It was astounding but they missed a trick not calling it 'Hades Night'.

[Fussbudget]

In agreement with the 'live' aspect of being a musician being a key point here: artists on major labels can make an absolute fortune from a tour - certainly far more than they might from sales/recording revenue.

Is this also true for small independent artists though? Every time this argument is trotted out, the examples given are always really famous major label artists that fill out large venues so I'd be curious to know if it applies across the board. Constant touring also presumably means less time to write and record new material.

What's the point of recording the filler any more? Maybe its just vanity because, I suspect most artists think it's all genius and don't believe in the hit-filler distinction. But, c'mon. It's ok to play that stuff live if you want, but nobody wants to pay for it.

Filler, eh. Maybe you've been buying the wrong albums.

[Hot Pepsi]

Is this also true for small independent artists though? Every time this argument is trotted out, the examples given are always really famous major label artists that fill out large venues so I'd be curious to know if it applies across the board. Constant touring also presumably means less time to write and record new material.

Filler, eh. Maybe you've been buying the wrong albums.

Well, the smaller bands were never making a tone of money on their records anyway.

I have bought many of the wrong albums, but I'm comfortable enough in my own masculinity to admit that the singles are often the best songs off an album and, in some cases, the only good songs whatsoever.

[Jah Womble]

Yeah, but think of all the garbage you've had to wade through (not Garbage. Garbage is pretty good) to find those. They other value of online music is that you can skip songs that you know you don't like after a few seconds. Cant' do that on the radio.

What makes you think that these stations would play 'garbage'? (Unless you meant 'wading through garbage stations', which I haven't really had to do, either.) Online music generators don't work for me because they assume too much: I do enjoy specific types of music, sure, but that doesn't mean that I want to be marginalised into listening solely to one or two genres - particularly by some online engine that probably isn't even as knowledgeable as I am. In short, I don't wish to be told what to like.

In terms of having to sit through something I don't like on the radio, I just tune out and/or make a cup of tea. But if it's a new piece, I'll give it the full listen - sometimes these things need to bed in. (Besides, how can one know without listening to something whether or not one likes it?)

And, yes, Garbage the band are pretty good. I heard some brand new material by them via CDNX just the other day.

Edit: Agree with your comment on independent-label acts. They simply aren't making money anyway - and in the UK, they're no longer selling singles.
These days, it takes a big-selling album to change all that.

[Hot Pepsi]

What makes you think that these stations would play 'garbage'? (Unless you meant 'wading through garbage stations', which I haven't really had to do, either.) Online music generators don't work for me because they assume too much: I do enjoy specific types of music, sure, but that doesn't mean that I want to be marginalised into listening solely to one or two genres - particularly by some online engine that probably isn't even as knowledgeable as I am. In short, I don't wish to be told what to like.

In terms of having to sit through something I don't like on the radio, I just tune out and/or make a cup of tea. But if it's a new piece, I'll give it the full listen - sometimes these things need to bed in. (Besides, how can one know without listening to something whether or not one likes it?)

And, yes, Garbage the band are pretty good. I heard some brand new material by them via CDNX just the other day.

Edit: Agree with your comment on independent-label acts. They simply aren't making money anyway - and in the UK, they're no longer selling singles.
These days, it takes a big-selling album to change all that.

My bad, I thought you were talking about traditional commercial radio stations.

You're more broad-minded than me.

I no longer have the patience to listen to songs I don't want to listen to. Even if it's a song I generally like, I'll sometimes skip it if it doesn't feel like the song I need right at that moment.

But I was reflecting on my comment about albums and thinking that I might be wrong. Or mostly wrong.

There's a lot of acts whose albums I don't want to listen to, but who have produced a few singles I like - this tends to be true of metal, prog, and definitely "jam bands." And some one or two hit wonder pop bands are such for a good reason.*

But I think we have lost something when people stop listening to whole albums at a time, and I need to take some time to do that more. Its possible to do that on spotify.

In particular, I'm thinking of bands who have singles that aren't really representative of their whole output or their whole album. And only by listening to the song within the context of the whole album can you really understand what the artist is all about. For example, if you just hear a single They Might Be Giants song, you might think they're just a novelty act. But if you listen to a lot of them - as I have - you see that they've created a whole unique aesthetic and they aren't doing it for irony or to be "whacky." Same with Bare Naked Ladies. They did that chinese chicken song, but that's not at all representative of their work, most of which is bittersweet and even melancholy. And that guy who stalked Anne Murray. I'm sure there are other examples. Maybe some of the mid-60s Beatles albums - Rubber Soul, Sargeant Peppers, Revolver - fit that description too.

*I try to be broad minded, but I don't really like songs that have no hook or "groove." If it's just noodling or noise, I'm not keen. And, especially when I'm working, I need uptempo, high energy stuff. Music helps me fight depression. So even a sad song can be ok if it has "energy" for lack of a better word. But usually slow ballads or whatever aren't part of my mix while I work.

[Fussbudget]

Well, the smaller bands were never making a tone of money on their records anyway.

Not a ton, but small to medium-sized indie artists definitely used to make reasonable money off record sales, and similar acts these day make next to nothing from streaming. I doubt they can turn enough of a profit from touring to make up the difference. The current system seems to massively favour artists who are already big to the detriment of the long tail, which I guess is similar to how mid-budget films seem to have disappeared completely leaving only massive studio blockbusters or DIY affairs.

But I think we have lost something when people stop listening to whole albums at a time, and I need to take some time to do that more.

I almost only listen to full albums, at least when I'm in the house (which is where I do most of my listening.) A lot of my favourite songs are songs that didn't really grab me on first listen and that I would have missed out on otherwise. I had a phase a few years back of mostly listening to playlists (mine, not bloody Spotify's) but I found that it was doing terrible things to my attention span and reducing my enjoyment of the songs.

[Hot Pepsi]

Not a ton, but small to medium-sized indie artists definitely used to make reasonable money off record sales, and similar acts these day make next to nothing from streaming. I doubt they can turn enough of a profit from touring to make up the difference. The current system seems to massively favour artists who are already big to the detriment of the long tail, which I guess is similar to how mid-budget films seem to have disappeared completely leaving only massive studio blockbusters or DIY affairs.

Yeah. Again, that's why those bands license their stuff for commercials, whereas in the past that would have been regarded as hopelessly uncool.
I suppose they can make it up on concerts if their audience is loyal enough. That's why concert tickets are so expensive these days, which is also a big reason I don't go to concerts. My periodic crowd anxiety/social anxiety is another. And most of the bands I like have already broken up. So there's that too.

I almost only listen to full albums, at least when I'm in the house (which is where I do most of my listening.) A lot of my favourite songs are songs that didn't really grab me on first listen and that I would have missed out on otherwise. I had a phase a few years back of mostly listening to playlists (mine, not bloody Spotify's) but I found that it was doing terrible things to my attention span and reducing my enjoyment of the songs.

The only playlist I listen to has just about every song I like. I like the random juxtapositions, but it may be messing up my attention span.