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The Notorious BRC - Scottish Fitba 2017-18

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    #51
    That's Cathro punted.

    http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/6097

    Hearts are to be applauded for trying something new, but there's a difference between coaching and management that Cathro couldn't overcome.
    Despite the excellent work I'm sure he was doing on the training ground, he seemed very indecisive and tactically unaware during matches, and I got the impression that he might have struggled to gain the respect of the players.
    That's their issue, not his, but his lack of experience of top-level football as a player was always going to be tough. I wish him well in the future.

    So it'll probably be Levein, or the same old merry-go-round of ex-pros or "experienced" managers. What's Jimmy Calderwood up to at the moment?

    Comment


      #52
      Groundswell of "let Kris Boyd have a go if he's so fucking clever" opinions, which would be amusing but I wouldn't wish that on our resident Jambos.

      Comment


        #53
        I'm going to stick up for Boyd here. His criticism of Cathro was regarding his poor man management skills, skills Boyd had seen at first hand on an SFA course. Whether we like it or not the ability to actually control, motivate and manage spoiled, selfish, rich and sometimes stupid footballers is a fairly important aspect of the job. Boyd, who is no one's idea of a consummate professional, was correct about that. Both Boyd and Steven Craigan were heavily criticised for questioning the appointment of Cathro. But both said the same thing; he won't be able to control the dressing room, he doesn't have the personality for it.

        Boyd is seen as an old-school pro. Never as fit as he could have been, not looking after his diet properly, one-of-the-boys and closed to any progressive thought in football. It might be true, I'm not sure either way, and he certainly frustrated me as a player, but by whatever measurement we want to use Cathro was a terrible appointment and a huge mistake by Hearts.

        Maybe all supporters want the guy who has never played professional football to succeed as a manager so that we can all sub-consciously know we could transform the sport if we'd just started coaching the local under-10 side a couple of years ago.

        There's a decent article on 2.1 (or something like that) by Graeme Ruthven about how the Cathro 'debate' was wrongly framed. He points out how many Scottish managers go from player straight to manager of top flight club compared to every other European league. It's the lack of coaching experience that's the problem and the belief that certain players will automatically become good managers. It might be true but a few seasons experience away from the spotlight might make them even better ones.

        Cathro can clearly coach, but perhaps not at first team level.

        Comment


          #54
          If the criticism of Cathro's "poor man management" had come from Kenny Miller or Darren Fletcher or Craig Gordon then it might have rung true.

          Boyd is seen as an old-school pro

          It might be true

          He's a phenomenal finisher. If he had more self-discipline, work ethic or common sense he could have been Miroslav Klose. Instead, he was finished as a top-level player by the age of 27 and he's part of the reason it's difficult to argue back whenever any of our Irish posters take the piss out of Scotland's football, diet or lifestyle.

          He points out how many Scottish managers go from player straight to manager of top flight club compared to every other European league. It's the lack of coaching experience that's the problem and the belief that certain players will automatically become good managers. It might be true but a few seasons experience away from the spotlight might make them even better ones.

          All other things being equal, it'd be great for younger coaches and managers to get more time to learn before they're thrown into the spotlight. But given how few coaching staff most of the smaller Scottish teams can afford, unless football introduces transfer windows for coaches and managers then coaching continuity's not happening anytime soon.

          Take my lot's manager as an example - only 39 years old, but longest-serving current manager in the top flight and third longest-serving manager in the whole country. Got the job when he was our 35-year-old club captain because a richer team enticed our then-manager and his assistant away in the middle of a promotion challenge and Archibald was the last guy left in the building who'd taken a training session with that squad, utilising that playing system.

          We were incredibly lucky, because Arch is one of the few that work out that well. We were incredibly lucky, because it's the first time since the days of Bertie Auld that we've appointed a guy straight off his playing days as manager and it's worked out well - Derek Johnstone, Sandy Clark, Tommy Bryce and the Derek Whyte / Gerry Britton tandem were all gone within a year.
          Last edited by blameless; 01-08-2017, 15:28.

          Comment


            #55
            Look I agree with you about Boyd being a poor role model and someone who should have achieved more, however that doesn't mean he's wrong on this particular subject.

            I'll try and find the article on managers for you later, it's worth a read. The writer used Holland as an example, showing how a player like Bergkamp, one of the finest players of any generation, was expected to coach youths and reserves for a few years before anyone would consider him for a first team coaching job. In a way clubs should have a conveyor belt of managers, when the 1st team coach leaves the reserve or under 21 manager should be able to step, the under 18 manager then moves up too and so on. It's fine in theory but whether it works in reality I'm not sure. But the overall point about Scottish clubs handing their biggest job to people who are unproven, untrained with no experience was an interesting one. It's worked with Archibald, but might it have worked even better if he'd coached the under 18s for a couple of seasons before, that was his basic point. In some ways it's what St Johnstone did with both Derek McInness and Tommy Wright and it's worked pretty well for them. But I can also think of occasions when a manager has been promoted from within and it didn't work.

            Comment


              #56
              I enjoyed the Dundee derby, obviously. So much so that I AM going to visit big brother in Dingwall for the weekend to see us away at ICT (there's some side attraction of becoming a great uncle or something, pretty irrelevant).

              I watched it in a Newcastle pub, special request to turn one of the 8 tellies off the cricket. Once-in-a-season opportunity as no other sunday would we be the only game on tv. No-one else paid any attention (except one old fucker: 'ah, naa, it's not propah football') until two Halifax fans in toon for the speedway joined me for the shootout.

              Comment


                #57
                A good weekend for the "Old Firm" then?

                http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/ranger...pram-1-8678226

                http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-sick-10915062

                Comment


                  #58
                  Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
                  Yeah, guy in a green wig and green t-shirt standing among 10,000 Rangers fans might get some verbals, particularly when some of them had been drinking since 6 in the morning.
                  The supporter's trust have raised nearly £4,000 for his charity in response though https://www.youcaring.com/johnburkhi...support-891488

                  Comment


                    #59
                    Originally posted by Guy Profumo View Post
                    It's crap like this that makes it really hard to decide which "big team" it is that you actually, secretly support...

                    Comment


                      #60
                      Originally posted by AMMS View Post
                      Yeah, guy in a green wig and green t-shirt standing among 10,000 Rangers fans might get some verbals, particularly when some of them had been drinking since 6 in the morning.
                      The supporter's trust have raised nearly £4,000 for his charity in response though https://www.youcaring.com/johnburkhi...support-891488
                      The same guy in the same green wig, and the same green Macmillan Nurses shirt that stands outside every home game and is a semi-permanent fixture outside the Peace Gardens and the Market?

                      But yes.

                      Props to the rest of their supporters distancing themselves from these idiots.

                      Comment


                        #61
                        It's the eve of the big kick-off and to no-one's surprise, 3 of our 4 European trailblazers came straight back home as they became too suspicious of those Johnny Foreigners.

                        So what's everyone's hopes and fears? This season's Championship welcomes Inverness, Livingston & Brechin City. Dundee Utd will start as favourites and whilst I think they'll win it, I don't think they'll run away with it. I just hope Saints can finally play some decent football and compete at the top end of the table for a change. Our Championship journey so far has yet to see us start and finish the season with the same manager. Expectations amongst the support is massive but our League Cup campaign was very ordinary so I genuinely don't know what to expect.

                        My fear is that the players let the hype of last season's finish make them think they'll just stroll to a top-4 finish and we end up once again battling it out down the bottom with the part-timers. A big crowd expected in Paisley tomorrow when Falkirk visit, which may be Peter Houston's last match in charge of the Bairns if he gets the Hearts job. A win against one of our potential promotion rivals would be a lovely way to start the season, but we rarely win our opening-day fixture so we might still be on zero points after Round 1.

                        Comment


                          #62
                          If Houston stays at Falkirk I think this is their season for the title. I was speaking with a Morton board member last week, he said they've a ton of injuries and doesn't expect them to challenge for the title, play-off place at best this season.

                          It's hard to see past Celtic although if they keep getting injuries to their forwards they might not stroll though quite as easily as last season. Aberdeen have bought well, quite impressed with how they've replaced the important players who left. I expect St Johnstone to finish top 6 again, model of stability and consistency. Thistle have improved every season since coming up, be harder this year though with Hibs back up. I reckon Hibs will start like a steam train, but fall away later. Motherwell, Killie, Ross County and Hamilton and Dundee will leapfrog each other every week until the split. I've no idea what will happen to Hearts, all depends who they get in as manager. We're playing them at Murrayfield next month a match that might set a new attendance record for the SPFL depending on how Police Scotland feel about it and whether we've all turned on Pedro yet or he's managed to prove my worst fears completely wrong.
                          I think we'll be looking for a new manager before the year is out. Watch out Killie, Thistle, St Johnstone or Dundee if any of you have a good start to the season, failing that someone from the Moldovan second division will probably get it.

                          Comment


                            #63
                            In League One, Ayr Utd could make a quick return to the Championship as they had a great League Cup stage winning all their games and scoring a bucketload of goals. My Ayr-supporting mate who was very downbeat at the end of last season and was planning on spending more time with his kids this season, is now re-considering that decision. I'm not too sure he's told his missus yet.

                            In League Two, I know bugger all apart from Peterhead beating Hearts in the League Cup, so they're my tip to win it.

                            Comment


                              #64
                              Watched Sportscene on Sunday night. Jesus Christ it was appalling. Not the pundits, I quite like Michael Stewart & Steven Thomson, two unusually thoughtful, intelligent and eloquent pundits and the presenter is fine as well. No, it was the jarring interminable opening which showed all the goals in a jazzy frenzy of splashy colour and jangly music. I want to watch the goals in context. They repeated the migraine inducing shite at regular intervals. Why? I'm almost moved to email the BBC.

                              Actually, almost every time I watch the BBC now I want to rip up my Licence. Shite programmes and barely concealed propaganda. I wouldn't care less if it disappeared tomorrow and I certainly didn't think that way 10 years ago.

                              The football was actually quite good with plenty of excellent goals. To be fair that was mostly down to the SFA's new directive that all central defenders in the SPFL now have to wear clown shoes. And be blindfolded.

                              Comment


                                #65
                                Originally posted by Erskine Bridges View Post
                                To be fair that was mostly down to the SFA's new directive that all central defenders in the SPFL now have to wear clown shoes. And be blindfolded.
                                New?

                                Comment


                                  #66

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    Yes OK. If only our International strikers could pounce on open goals as swiftly as that. But in my defence (which will obv be hopeless) I don't recall quite so many games in which quite so many defenders ran into each other, ran away from the ball, failed to make headers, fell out of exploding cars, tripped over buckets etc. Standing still, pointing & shouting hopefully at the ref, impersonating chocolate bars, yes. On the up side it should mean loads of goals and as I said, there were quite a few good uns although I think I'd fancy my chances against Greer & Clubfoot.

                                    On another note entirely but again related to Sportscene, I couldn't help but note during the after match interviews the rather high number of good looking young managers currently gracing the SPFL. I don't know if this is a cynical attempt to chase the pink pound but as one who grew up with the likes of Jim McLean, Ally MacLeod, Jock Wallace, Jock Stein & Ally McGraw, it is a refreshing change.

                                    Youngster Alan Archibald has film star looks and a modern haircut, Lee McCulloch looks clean cut and dashing (although that's possibly because his face isn't contorted with psychotic rage during interviews as it frequently was on pitch). Derek McInnes sports the hipsterish, bearded (but not too bearded) image. Brendan's coupon always shines like a happy suntanned saint who's just raised a crippled child from its bed. Neil McCann looks like an excited teenager, even Martin Canning could pass for a rugged movie star (if that movie star was Gerard Butler after a particularly punishing session on the White Lightning and a bad fall). Now I know you'll throw Neil Lennon and (if you had some kind of hoisting gear) Tommy Wright at me but they are Paddies. And not even the slightly better looking (due mostly to the spunk of shipwrecked Spanish sailors) Paddies south of the border. No, they are Nordies who were Scots before the good genes were bred out of them so what can you expect.

                                    So I think I have a case. Cathro was punted not for his results but for that weak chin and weedy, wispy unattractive facial hair my Gran would have been ashamed of. His temporary replacement, Jon Daly, is I accept one ugly pasty faced fellow but, hold on, he is just proving my point. Even Pedro looks quite elegant and sophisticated and is certainly an upgrade on the likes of McLeish & Advocaat. And Warburton. And McCoist. And Walter.

                                    I'm not sure what any of this means but I blame Sportscene. It's jazzy attempts at whateverthefuck it was seem to have affected me worse than a bad acid trip.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      I have just noticed the massive hole in my argument. It is bigger than the spaces in Hearts defence. But it is the exception that proves the rule I think. And Saint B now surely transcends something as worldly as mere nationality.

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        Applause on the St Brendan riff, Erskine. Though I fear your disparagement of Erin's gene pool may bring Berba and a 2000 word post on Irish gene markers, paleo migration from Spain, Teh dirty planters, Cromwell...

                                        Comment


                                          #70
                                          Bring it on, it will hopefully help eradicate that Sportscene mash-up horror story...

                                          Comment


                                            #71
                                            Aidy Boothroyd the latest name to be added to the 'short'-list for the Hearts job.

                                            Actually saw him score for Hearts back in the day, cracking goal against Huntly in the Scottish Cup.

                                            Comment


                                              #72
                                              Originally posted by Erskine Bridges View Post
                                              Yes OK. If only our International strikers could pounce on open goals as swiftly as that. But in my defence (which will obv be hopeless) I don't recall quite so many games in which quite so many defenders ran into each other, ran away from the ball, failed to make headers, fell out of exploding cars, tripped over buckets etc. Standing still, pointing & shouting hopefully at the ref, impersonating chocolate bars, yes. On the up side it should mean loads of goals and as I said, there were quite a few good uns although I think I'd fancy my chances against Greer & Clubfoot.

                                              On another note entirely but again related to Sportscene, I couldn't help but note during the after match interviews the rather high number of good looking young managers currently gracing the SPFL. I don't know if this is a cynical attempt to chase the pink pound but as one who grew up with the likes of Jim McLean, Ally MacLeod, Jock Wallace, Jock Stein & Ally McGraw, it is a refreshing change.

                                              Youngster Alan Archibald has film star looks and a modern haircut, Lee McCulloch looks clean cut and dashing (although that's possibly because his face isn't contorted with psychotic rage during interviews as it frequently was on pitch). Derek McInnes sports the hipsterish, bearded (but not too bearded) image. Brendan's coupon always shines like a happy suntanned saint who's just raised a crippled child from its bed. Neil McCann looks like an excited teenager, even Martin Canning could pass for a rugged movie star (if that movie star was Gerard Butler after a particularly punishing session on the White Lightning and a bad fall). Now I know you'll throw Neil Lennon and (if you had some kind of hoisting gear) Tommy Wright at me but they are Paddies. And not even the slightly better looking (due mostly to the spunk of shipwrecked Spanish sailors) Paddies south of the border. No, they are Nordies who were Scots before the good genes were bred out of them so what can you expect.

                                              So I think I have a case. Cathro was punted not for his results but for that weak chin and weedy, wispy unattractive facial hair my Gran would have been ashamed of. His temporary replacement, Jon Daly, is I accept one ugly pasty faced fellow but, hold on, he is just proving my point. Even Pedro looks quite elegant and sophisticated and is certainly an upgrade on the likes of McLeish & Advocaat. And Warburton. And McCoist. And Walter.

                                              I'm not sure what any of this means but I blame Sportscene. It's jazzy attempts at whateverthefuck it was seem to have affected me worse than a bad acid trip.
                                              Thank you for that, genuine laughing (obviously out loud) down here.

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by Erskine Bridges View Post
                                                Yes OK. If only our International strikers could pounce on open goals as swiftly as that. But in my defence (which will obv be hopeless) I don't recall quite so many games in which quite so many defenders ran into each other, ran away from the ball, failed to make headers, fell out of exploding cars, tripped over buckets etc. Standing still, pointing & shouting hopefully at the ref, impersonating chocolate bars, yes. On the up side it should mean loads of goals and as I said, there were quite a few good uns although I think I'd fancy my chances against Greer & Clubfoot.

                                                On another note entirely but again related to Sportscene, I couldn't help but note during the after match interviews the rather high number of good looking young managers currently gracing the SPFL. I don't know if this is a cynical attempt to chase the pink pound but as one who grew up with the likes of Jim McLean, Ally MacLeod, Jock Wallace, Jock Stein & Ally McGraw, it is a refreshing change.

                                                Youngster Alan Archibald has film star looks and a modern haircut, Lee McCulloch looks clean cut and dashing (although that's possibly because his face isn't contorted with psychotic rage during interviews as it frequently was on pitch). Derek McInnes sports the hipsterish, bearded (but not too bearded) image. Brendan's coupon always shines like a happy suntanned saint who's just raised a crippled child from its bed. Neil McCann looks like an excited teenager, even Martin Canning could pass for a rugged movie star (if that movie star was Gerard Butler after a particularly punishing session on the White Lightning and a bad fall). Now I know you'll throw Neil Lennon and (if you had some kind of hoisting gear) Tommy Wright at me but they are Paddies. And not even the slightly better looking (due mostly to the spunk of shipwrecked Spanish sailors) Paddies south of the border. No, they are Nordies who were Scots before the good genes were bred out of them so what can you expect.

                                                So I think I have a case. Cathro was punted not for his results but for that weak chin and weedy, wispy unattractive facial hair my Gran would have been ashamed of. His temporary replacement, Jon Daly, is I accept one ugly pasty faced fellow but, hold on, he is just proving my point. Even Pedro looks quite elegant and sophisticated and is certainly an upgrade on the likes of McLeish & Advocaat. And Warburton. And McCoist. And Walter.

                                                I'm not sure what any of this means but I blame Sportscene. It's jazzy attempts at whateverthefuck it was seem to have affected me worse than a bad acid trip.
                                                While I don't recall Ms. McGraw's time managing in the old Premier League myself I personally would welcome her return in some capacity...


                                                Perhaps when you were starring for one of the world's great juvenile football clubs EB you had your choice of women?

                                                Comment


                                                  #74
                                                  Ha Ha. She would certainly have improved attendances at Cappielow.

                                                  As for your query AMMS, as with the football, I was good but not good enough. And as I didn't actually live in Western Europe's most deprived urban area, I got absolutely no benefit whatsoever. However, in my first season I was often thumbing a lift home on a Saturday night from Luss to Mid Argyll. A surprising number of single women of a certain age (seemed ancient to me then but I'd say forties so young now (Christ, where does it go)) stopped for me. They always said the same thing.

                                                  " I don't normally stop for young men but you looked so clean cut & happy..."

                                                  I did make an effort to look presentable and flash a smile and back then was closer to Archibald than Canning in looks. Several of them actually invited me back to their houses for 'tea & scones.' I always declined because I had no fucking clue!!!!!!

                                                  PS Cheers Chopper!

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    Still weirds me out to see Arch with any hair, let alone tidy hair, considering that for most of his playing career he looked like this:

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