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    Grenfell flats fire

    Just reported that 17 people are now confirmed dead.

    I honestly don't know where to start on this. It's not often I am moved to tears but I was yesterday reading about what happened in that tower block. The sheer horror of it all, the way it went up and the number of people who have died, it's just so terrible. Inevitably there will be an inquest and everyone will say all the warnings were missed, just as they were at Zeebrugge, Bradford City, Kings Cross, Hillsborough and many others. Sometimes a disaster it what it takes to make people sit up and do something. I just wish it didn't.

    #2
    Just awful and so, so many questions to be answered.

    The first one I'd like to hear is why moderately flammable cladding is allowable within building regulations, FFS!

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      #3
      It is/was an unbearable story to wake up to yesterday, watching this huge building ablaze in that way and knowing how many people must be trapped up there. If the final death toll is less than 100 I'll be surprised. Fucking awful, and so many questions to be answered

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        #4
        There's growing anger that they residents have been complaining about fire safety but being ignored and that if this had been an apartment block for the rich it would never have happened.

        How many of the people made homeless by this will ever return to the borough?

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          #5
          As Wingco said on his fb, it will be an utter scandal (the whole thing is already) if the freed - up real estate is not used for social housing.

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            #6
            Complained publically and recently:- https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...ing-with-fire/

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              #7
              https://twitter.com/tobytarrant/status/875147505255804928

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                #8
                "Jeremy Corbyn has been seen meeting residents and community leaders at the scene. He said “the truth has got to come out and will come out” as he visited volunteers helping after the Grenfell Tower fire.

                “The community needs you,” one resident told Corbyn.

                He toured the area with the shadow housing minister, John Healey, and the new Labour MP for Kensington, Emma Dent Coad.

                Earlier Theresa May visited the scene but did not meet residents. "

                Does Theresa May come out in a rash if she has to meet members of the public?

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                  #9
                  I have the feeling that this horrible catastrophe could bring down this not-yet-entirely-formed government. With the MPs who voted against tenants' rights last year (or recently anyway) being mostly Tory slum landlords, with the ex minister for housing being the new Chief of Staff (or whatever his title is - Barwell, is that his name?) who reportedly sat on a report that directly spoke to this danger, and with the precarious nature of the government's current position anyway, this could just about be the thing that breaks them. Two years ago a horrible fire in a nightclub in Bucharest resulted eventually after massive protests in the collapse of the government. I could see the same happening in the UK.

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                    #10
                    This fire may well end up being this generations Hillsborough.

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                      #11
                      Though hopefully not with regard to cover ups and blame shifting. There was a piece on i's website that cladding used on some of these tower blocks are made from a by product of the petroleum industry, and the FPA rate them as very combustible. How stuff like this could ever get approved by even the most corrupt of governing bodies is truly horrifying.

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                        #12
                        https://twitter.com/Mulberry319/status/875322404507136001

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                          #13
                          Agree with all above, this was huge, and terribly sad.

                          The one bright thing has been the way everybody has helped out, but OMG, the terrible horror of it all.

                          Someone said it was "class war", which is probably a bit hyperbolic, but there are real class issues at play, for sure, and the working-class, the poor, the emergency workers are generally the heroes here.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                            There's growing anger that they residents have been complaining about fire safety but being ignored and that if this had been an apartment block for the rich it would never have happened.
                            There are widespread reports today that the cladding which was added was put there to improve the appearance of the tower from the nearby luxury flats.

                            This is just hellishly awful. I can't read the news about the fire itself, it's the stuff of nightmares.

                            (Must also check we have working smoke alarms and an escape route at home.)

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                              #15
                              This is just wrong, so very very wrong. My heart goes out to all those who've lost family and friends in this tragedy. There are so many levels of lack of care and concern in this story it's hard to know where to begin. Why, for example, are sprinkler systems not routinely installed when this kind of renovation is done? This seems so fucking obvious. Apparently there are 4,000 similar high-rises without sprinklers in London alone. Apparently the cladding has caused fires elsewhere (Dubai a year or so back) because to be made safe proper installation takes time. Conversely fire doors that work properly don't take any more time to install than when done badly, so why didn't they work here? It goes on and on.

                              It might seem incongruous but the parallel story that jumped to mind yesterday was the recent United Airlines fuck-up. Not, of course, because of its extent but because both reveal a fundamental lack of humanity when it comes to institutional decision making. They involve people, and in both cases people were the last thing on the minds of those responsible for the mess when they should have been the very first.
                              Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 15-06-2017, 16:28.

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                                #16
                                What others have said. Appalling. God only knows how many dead there are near the top of the building. It feels a bit like Katrina.

                                Different things will jump out to different people at this stage. One thing with me, and a broadbrush politics thing, is the way the Coalition forced a level of cuts on to councils that it didn't want to front up for itself. Then it stuck a de facto 1.99% cap on councils. The goon Pickles fretted about Christmas lights and weekly bin collections being cut, not maintenance of buildings like Grenfell.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Kevin S View Post
                                  There are widespread reports today that the cladding which was added was put there to improve the appearance of the tower from the nearby luxury flats.
                                  That came from an Independent article, and I thought it was out of order really. They found I think one reference specifically to the view from areas with luxury flats and a conservation area together, but far more references just to "appearance". It's a 24 storey block, it's a pretty huge public that's going to be looking at the building. It doesn't seem a bad principle to make the building look nice from outside, and help attract more people to the area for work, visiting etc.

                                  There was an interesting Vice article here about another redevelopment nearby. One of the things that worried people there was that the 4 tower blocks looked increasingly out of place in the area, and for that reason there was a fear that they'd be vulnerable to be developed away. In that context, sticking cladding doesn't seem a bad thing to consider.

                                  But obviously, something went appallingly wrong.

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                                    #18
                                    I'm not sure that concrete properly cleaned looks worse than tacky plasticy cladding. Most of that shit looks awful after a few years. There are internal insulation techniques that can be applied as well, but that's a lot more costly than some Premier Inn looking external shell.

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                                      #19
                                      Laura K referring to possible uncomfortable truths "not just this government, but previous governments".

                                      Cameron used to do "questions for all of us, as a society", when talking about appalling prisons he was in charge of. No doubt that'll get a run in time too.

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                                        #20
                                        I've seen both (Labour) Councillor Judith Blakeman and the Grenfell Action Group quoted widely. They don't seem to like her very much.

                                        https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpres...no-1-blakeman/

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                                          #21
                                          This was a monstrous crime – there must be arrests after Grenfell Tower

                                          https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-police-fire?

                                          David Lammy in the Guardian.

                                          Lily Allen was excellent on Channel 4 News and claimed that police sources have told her up to 150 have died. The police have also said not all of the victims have been identified.

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                                            #22
                                            Good Christ. 150?

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                                              #23
                                              Yep. Looking at the building on TV and hearing that the advice was to stay in your flat it tragically does not surprise.

                                              The anger is starting now. May avoiding the public is just typical of her. At least Khan faced the wrath of the public.

                                              The elderly and infirm were placed in higher floors apparently.

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                                                #24
                                                The coverage on Channel 4 compared to BBC is like night and day.

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                                                  #25
                                                  I spent a good deal of time yesterday on QPR sites. The club has a lot of supporters from the Latimer Road area, so I knew it'd be personal. This is from an hour or so ago:

                                                  The longest day of my life but it's minuscule in comparison to what those families are going through. I played on the building site that became Lancaster West Estate in the late 60s early 70s. . I lived 100 yards from the building for most of my childhood. My bedroom looked out onto the flats. Working at Holland Park station (nearest station opened) I had to deal with loads of distraught people looking to find one of the five assistance centres. We also had to deal with the numerous volunteers looking to help out. Then news filtered through that a work colleague had lost his sister in law and five kids under 10 years old. Everyone openly wept for him.Then I had to send another colleague home when his missus text to say her uncle is missing. Turns out he's the one reported missing on TV as he couldn't escape from the 20th floor as he was disabled. His wife and daughter had to leave him behind to escape. Then I got told my mate Eddie Daffarn lived on the 16th floor. When I saw him being interviewed on ITV at 7pm I wept for joy. He's even in last nights Standard on page 5 telling how he was lucky to escape when a fireman found him in the darkness and dragged him to the stairs. I've also been given a list of blokes I knew growing up but haven't seen for over 20 years that are on the missing list. It numbers over a dozen but could rise.

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