Zuma in Zugzwang?

[Tactical Genius]

I think you'll need to understand South African history and culture a bit better before jumping in two-footed like Delle Alli on coke. To base a whole set of arguments on the foundations of "I've met a few people who..." and "oh, but maybe something I imagine might have happened happened" is not going to cut it.

I don't know what you are on about, but I these attempts at deflection and moving the conversation on to ground you fell more comfortable isn't going to work so easily.

"Yes all land belongs to the indigenous populations"

It does until they sell it freely and not have it stolen by outside colonisers. They also have the right to take it back without having to pay for it.

Anyway, I will ask for the second time.

should the government repatriate the land without compensation and if no, who should compensate the land owners?

[G-Man]

Asking that you know what you're talking about is not a deflection. You clearly don't know enough about South Africa to argue from an informed point of view.

You still haven't addressed the point about land that was unoccupied. If you say that it was stolen, you'll have to say how (and do better than "maybe what might possibly have happened").

I've answered your question regarding land reform. The way you are phrasing it, as a YES or NO, is unanswerable, as my posts have demonstrated.

[Tactical Genius]

You still haven't addressed the point about land that was unoccupied. If you say that it was stolen, you'll have to say how (and do better than "maybe what might possibly have happened").

I have answered this before and I have pasted my previous reply in case you missed it.

According to whom, are you sure the inhabitants were not murdered and historical documents changed to say it wasn't inhabited? Europeans have form for that.
Also maybe the African tribes ran away when they saw white people coming as they got wind of what happened to the tribe down the road. Nobody wants to be stuck in a township or put on a one-way boat ride to The Caribbean/Madagascar or Mauritius.

I've answered your question regarding land reform. The way you are phrasing it, as a YES or NO, is unanswerable,

Seems like a simple question to me, Berbaslug answered it, Diable Rouge answered it and I answered it too.

Your posts have not demonstrated much to me apart from you lecturing me about how little I know about South Africa and the internal politics without being specific. You try and shift the conversation onto unoccupied land and the plight of the so-called coloured people.

[G-Man]

I have gone into some detail to raise the issue of the First People, from whom coloureds are descended. If Bantu people took the land they occupied, as they did in the Eastern Cape, then that invariably has an influence on the direction of a discussion. Your dismissal of it betrays your ignorance. The land debate is not as simple as you and populists like Julius Malema present it to be. If nuance annoys you, well, tough fuck.

I have answered under what conditions I'd accept the argument for a blanket expropriation: the nationalisation of all land. No privately-owned land.

[Tactical Genius]

Hahahaha Gman,

I have been reading your responses and have called bingo on all your typical debating tactics.

Deflection
Obfuscation
False equivalence and whataboutary
fake exasperation
and finally aggression

I have gone into some detail to raise the issue of the First People, from whom coloureds are descended

Not really. you spent most of your last few posts telling me I don't know African tribal culture and history.

Like Malema I am a pan-Africanist and I think getting bogged down in petty tribalism is a poor use of our time when we are trying to replace a system of White supremacy with a system of justice.

If Bantu people took the land they occupied, as they did in the Eastern Cape, then that invariably has an influence on the direction of a discussion. Your dismissal of it betrays your ignorance.

Blah, Blah Blah.
Once again To Pan Africans like Myself, Julius Malema, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Muhammed Ali and Fred Hampton (you see the trend here) a Bantu in Durban, a so-called coloured in Cape Town, a Yoruba in the UK and a black American in Chicago is the same. We have seen the effect of the WS divide and rule tactic in the numerous post-colonial civil wars throughout the continent.
This is why I am always vociferous about issues that affect the African diaspora, I address them all with the same passion, i don't have the ability to only care when it suits my dubious agenda......

The land debate is not as simple as you and populists like Julius Malema present it to be.

Yes, its simple:

we do not recognise the colonial-imposed national boundaries
We do not recognise the colonial-imposed so-called History lessons of who lived where
We do not have time for petty land squabbles between tribes fuelled by WS who don't give a shit about such matters besides spreading confusion.
Neely Fuller Jr teaches (google him) that a tactic of the WS is to play both sides of the argument. Now before people jump up and make accusations and saying I am being harsh on Gman, I took the liberty to look at his Activity on similar recent threads.

Eni Aluko = 0 posts
White Supremacy Thread = 3 posts, all of which were him trying to be a smart arse rather than adding anything constructive to the thread (which may point to his mindset on such matters)

If nuance annoys you, well, tough fuck.
I'm not annoyed, I actually find this thread enlightening.
It seems your the one getting (or pretending to) hacked off as I easily dismantle all your talking points as completly illogical.

I have answered under what conditions I'd accept the argument for a blanket expropriation: the nationalisation of all land. No privately-owned land.

So after all this time, you come back and say you agree with me and Julius Malema. See his speech in the first link a couple of pages back 5:45 onwards.

As Neely Fuller Jr correctly says, the purpose of a WS when he debates with you is to waste your time.
Good Day to you sir.

[G-Man]

You are calling me a white supremacist? Seriously, go and fuck your self-righteous, ignorant, racist self. And next time you come to Cape Town, stay in a hotel.

[Tactical Genius]

You are calling me a white supremacist?

If that upsets you, then you should consider changing your sources of information and your debating tactics which come straight from the Fox news playbook.
Whether you agreed with me or not, at least i took the time our to read your posts and quote directly on the bits you had to say that I took issue with.
You seemed more interested in these pompous displays of exerting dominance by patronising me and my supposed lack of knowledge yet not taking the time out to educate me.

Seriously, go and fuck your self-righteous, ignorant, racist self

I can give you self-righteous and at a push Ignorant. But Racist, show proof please.

[quote]
And next time you come to Cape Town, stay in a hotel.
[quote]

I have only been to Cape Town once and i am eternally grateful you offered (I didn't ask, you offered) me a place to stay and the fantastic hospitality shown to me. For this I am eternally grateful.

At the time I assumed this was out of the goodness of your heart, however I can now see that there was a more sinister side to your invitation....

For those new to OTF, I would like to say that I do not come on here looking for someone to stay when I travel to other posters home cities. Actually, I have over the last few years stopped meeting posters when I travel and no longer attend 'thons.

In hindsight, it looks like a good move.