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    Racism in English football

    There's a fella on the Twitters called Graham Bandeira or something, who does drawings for the Yorkshire Post. He tweeted something like "What is Pogba? A footballer? A rapper? A dancer? A hairdresser? I really don't know."

    Now this is ridiculous for a number of reasons. He's obviously a footballer. He's on FIFA 17 and I saw hi playing for United the other week on telly at my Mum and Dad's. But it's also racist, isn't it?

    The replies were all to the effect that Pogba is more interested in his hair or dabbing than his career. I don't recall similar criticism of Ljungberg when he had his red mohawk, but then Ljungberg wasn't black.

    It's the same sort of criticism you see levelled at Raheem Sterling. The shit papers are always reporting on him for either a) spending lots of money on a house or b) hardly any money in a pound shop or Greggs. It seems this country can't accept young, successful, wealthy black males.

    Plus there's been the outrageous mass reaction to the AFCON (literally the only things I've seen about it on social media are a lad getting kicked up the bollocks, a keeper tripping himself up and a keeper bouncing on his arse in celebration, followed by numerous crying laughter emojis and TYPICAL AFRICANS style bullshit). I just can't really be arsed with this sort of low level irritating shit any more, and I don't really know what to do about it. You point out that this is blatant racism and you get accused of being perma offended, a snowflake or playing the race card.

    I suppose I should just stop going on social media, but I thrive on external validation, and besides it, and football, is just a reflection of society, so it'll make no odds.

    Anyone fancy a brew?

    #2
    Racism in English football

    My tips would be:

    1) Stop seeking social validation.
    2) Accept that most people are horrible ignorant cunts.
    3) Headbutt random people you walk past on the street. Chances are they're horrible ignorant cunts and they probably deserve it.

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      #3
      Racism in English football

      Hmm, I don't think the vast majority of fans are any more, though there's maybe a hard core of 5-10% based on evidence of what you hear these days.
      Mainly linked to certain clubs who help massively exaggerate that figure.

      Though there's probably been a marginal increase due to the morons encouraged by Brexit, Frump et al, which the media don't seem to care about too much.

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        #4
        Racism in English football

        There is the minority hardcore goose-stepping racist and then there is the more numerous casual it's-only-a-laugh, stop-being-such-a-PC-millennial-snowflake racist, although the latter is highly influenced by the former's rhetoric, and the former frequently disguises himslef as the latter in polite company.

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          #5
          Racism in English football

          I haven't seen the original material in the original post, but it strikes me that Pogba is worthy of question and cynicism regardless of the colour of his skin. The most expensive footballer in the world is proving to be a mediocre player in a mediocre team, but he has his goal celebration dances and his hair cut down to a tee. If he was white, cost 80mill and was similarly underwhelming he'd be ridiculed too.

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            #6
            Racism in English football

            In an act of full disclosure, I sort of know Graeme Bandeira. I went to 6th Form with him, but have no recollection of him from there, even though others have told me various tales about occasions where we were both present. However, he used to be a fairly prolific poster on a main Boro message board and always seemed the kind of lad you could have a sensible discussion about this sort of issue with, should you wish to.

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              #7
              Racism in English football

              While I can't claim that yer man Graham is a racist (after all people chastise Cristiano Ronaldo for his shenanigans), there is an ongoing theme of "these flamboyant blacks with their over-the-top celebrations bringing the game into disrepute", a racist theme that is also common in American sports.

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                #8
                Racism in English football

                Whilst racism is much less institutionalised, it is sadly still present in the forms of latent racism.
                In football there has been less racial abuse (in England)...but like you say with the papers, it still lives on, just in a more covert form.

                When we open our ignorant human eyes and realised we are all one?
                Or maybe we like to blame someone other than our selves for a failure of a life

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                  #9
                  Racism in English football

                  @Reginald Christ "Foreign managers new to English football will have to deal with the weighted question, "What does he know about our league?"" Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment of your post I think you are perhaps going a little too far with this point in the case in which a manager is asked the question directly (what do you know..?). Hull City, for example, have just appointed a manager has no previous experience of managing in England and I think, from a journalistic point of view it is a valid question. Supporters like to know as much as possible about a managers background and from that point it is interesting to know a manager's thoughts on what he has already observed about English football, the tactics, style of play, atmosphere etc. I appreciate your citation was a tad more flippant in delivery but I can be valid.

                  Equally, I think Pep to City, Klopp to Liverpool and Moyes to Real Sociedad are good examples of where this question - posed directly to the manager could be valid.

                  @seand I also agree with this. Ronaldo as Vulgarian Visigoth said gets plenty of stick (deservedly) too.

                  @EIM should require some counter-balancing material of a majority of English footballers generally fucking things up and demonstrating how not to play the beautiful game, may I recommend @crap90sfootball@crap90sfootball on twitter? I provides me with an also daily chuckle for 10 seconds when I'm feeling a little blue.

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                    #10
                    Racism in English football

                    Interesting point RC. I think it's obvious that it's legitimate to reasonably ask what a new manager knows about the industry he's moving into. Standard job interview stuff. But I suppose when Phil Thompson and the like ask "what does he know about English football" they don't really want to be told (say) he has a team of three analysts who watch every Premier League match and has detailed dossiers on each opponent identifying their tactics, strengths and weaknesses, he has a UEFA A coaching licence and spends 80-100 hours a week at his job. What the f**k do you know about English football, incidentally? They're more likely to be thinking Hull or Stoke or West Brom would be better off with a nice British manager like Hughes or Allardyce or Strachan or Pulis or Warnock or Redknapp......

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                      #11
                      Racism in English football

                      The replies were all to the effect that Pogba is more interested in his hair or dabbing than his career. I don't recall similar criticism of Ljungberg when he had his red mohawk, but then Ljungberg wasn't black.

                      no, but they weren't subtle about suggesting that he was gay though.

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                        #12
                        Racism in English football

                        That was the modelling though, wasn't it?

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                          #13
                          Racism in English football

                          Reginald Christ wrote: But is it really a valid question though, ingoldale? I suppose it depends on the intentions of whoever's asking. In an open-ended sense it might be reasonable to ask of a manager how much they know about a particular league but that wasn't what Phil Thompson meant when he was talking about Marco Silva. It was delivered with unmistakable contempt. "What does he know about our league?" Note the emphasis. Silva's impressive work so far with Hull demonstrates that either he knows a lot about English football already or that his methods are universal in application. I lean towards the latter explanation which is why I think it's a bit of a bullshit question. What is there about English football, to take an example, that a manager would really need to know before taking a job in England? That the footballing culture favours physicality, athleticism and speed above skill and tactical intelligence? You don't have to have played or managed in England to know that.
                          In fairness, I did acknowledge that you were referring to comments of this sort. I was referring to your first point that "in an open-ended sense it might be reasonable to ask of a manager how much they know about a particular league" which I think is fair enough. It is reasonable, as pointed out by Seand, to ask a new employee what they know about their new employment environment even if the answer is "That the footballing culture favours physicality, athleticism and speed above skill and tactical intelligence" which it may well be.

                          As I said, for someone asking the manager directly (such as in his first press conference) so the fans can find out what he knows about the English game in general their opinions can be of interest and often insightful.

                          Lack of knowledge can also prove to be disastrous. David Moyes' experience as Sociedad was hindered by his players' lack of belief in his methods. Part of this was due to the fact that he did not go into much detail behind the reasons why certain tactics were being used. Whilst English players might be content with knowing what their basic job his players at Spanish clubs often like more detail and had Moyes known this from the start his results might have been better.

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                            #14
                            Racism in English football

                            Vulgarian Visigoth wrote: That was the modelling though, wasn't it?
                            I think a lot of arsenal fans thought he was gay. It's the sort of thing that people really don't care about if you're basically park ji sung with feet.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Racism in English football

                              EIM wrote:

                              It's the same sort of criticism you see levelled at Raheem Sterling. The shit papers are always reporting on him for either a) spending lots of money on a house or b) hardly any money in a pound shop or Greggs. It seems this country can't accept young, successful, wealthy black males.

                              Plus there's been the outrageous mass reaction to the AFCON (literally the only things I've seen about it on social media are a lad getting kicked up the bollocks, a keeper tripping himself up and a keeper bouncing on his arse in celebration, followed by numerous crying laughter emojis and TYPICAL AFRICANS style bullshit). I just can't really be arsed with this sort of low level irritating shit any more, and I don't really know what to do about it. You point out that this is blatant racism and you get accused of being perma offended, a snowflake or playing the race card.
                              Agree 100% although I have a persecution complex and a chip on my shoulder.

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                                #16
                                Racism in English football

                                Good to see you again. What do you think of the new layout?

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                                  #17
                                  Racism in English football

                                  I'm unconvinced people are picking on Pogba because he is black, more because he cost a LOT of money and he does attention-grabbing things like having his haircut immortalised as an emoji. I mean what are you meant to do about that latter point? Ignore it? Deconstruct the deeper societal ramifications of emoji-ising haircuts while smoking your pipe at the philosophy club? Come on, that sort of thing deserves to have the piss taken out of, and hard. If you are going to try and turn your haircut into a global social media event then someone asking if you are a hairdresser isn't the most offensive thing.

                                  Footballers spunking money on stupid cars and ugly houses is standard fare for the papers but I'd need convincing that black players are singled out and targeted.

                                  There has been plenty of stuff written just on this messageboard about almost every footballer, with plenty of it deeply offensive. Being a footballer makes you a target. People still call Gary Lineker "jug ears" on Twitter. Beckham has been on the front of the pages for a few days now and he retired a while ago.

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                                    #18
                                    Racism in English football

                                    Let's just say Phil "Fucking" Thompson's contempt for Silva is no surprise, if the persistent rumours of his (let's be kind and call it xenophobic or "old-fashioned" rather than racist) behaviour while coaching at LFC with that old spoofer Houllier have any truth. A horrible man by all accounts.

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                                      #19
                                      Racism in English football

                                      A more pertinent question would be 'What does Thompson know about "our league"?'

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Racism in English football

                                        https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/mar/02/colin-kazim-richards-corinthians-brazil-racism-football

                                        "Kazim-Richards feels a lot of players are judged differently because of their race and because of where they come from. “Look at Raheem [Sterling] and [Paul] Pogba, for example, when they don’t have a good game everybody comes down on them for like, crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. And then you look at other players …” He trails off, letting the silence hang in the air. “Everyone’s quiet. I’m not gonna say the names. Nobody has the same talks. Like I see a piece in the paper about Raheem in the pound shop and people are taking the piss like: ‘Woah! He’s earning this amount.’ What? He can’t shop at the pound shop?”"

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                                          #21
                                          Racism in English football

                                          That was a very good interview. He's right as well, lampard was always portrayed as one of the game's gents even after the 9/11 airport crap. Doubt a black English player would have been allowed to live that down so easily (especially if he's from a part Muslim background).

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                                            #22
                                            Racism in English football

                                            Well, seeing as Frank Sinclair was also part of the Heathrow incident but his involvement gets mentioned a lot less than Lampard's, if at all, that would rather tend to disprove that particular theory.

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                                              #23
                                              Racism in English football

                                              Frank Mohammed Sinclair, incidentally.

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                                                #24
                                                Racism in English football

                                                I really do resent the idea that because you criticise Sterling or any other black player that automatically makes you a racist.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Racism in English football

                                                  The irony is, come the end of the season, If he keeps 'Ull oop, then Marco Silva should be a shoo-in for the Liverpool job...

                                                  As for treatment of non-white players, actors, entertainers & musicians are often prone to the same tedious scrutiny, but suppose just a 'general expression of Society blan blah blah.

                                                  In the bigger picture, there's far worse abuse(verbal & physical) happening to 'normal' people in their everyday lives, including occasionally to players in the lower leagues, who happen to appear different.

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