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The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

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    #26
    The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

    So it did matter that Watson beat Solyu (for the loss of just one game) and Konta battled past Buyukakcay after dropping the first set. Or did and didn't, as Latvia were also beating Portugal simultaneously.

    Britain's opponents in the play-off match tomorrow will be the winners of the ongoing Croatia vs Hungary match. This has gone nearly to the wire, the deciding set of the deciding doubles, but that doesn't look likely to be close; Croatia have just gone 5-0 up with a triple break. The Croatia team is Konjuh, Vekic, Lukas and Jurak, for the record. Britain will be favourites against them...

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      #27
      The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

      Over in the Americas event, and Sam might still get a match to cover later this year as Argentina beat Brazil 2-1. Chile beat Mexico 2-1, and can match the Argentines if they beat Brazil in their final match. Asusming h2h is also used here as in Europe/Africa, and kind of Chilean win would see them top the group if Mexico also beat Colombia. However only a 3-0 win over Brazil would be enough if Colombia beat Mexico. Colombia can't win the group in any circumstances.
      The winner of Pool A was Canada, who utterly thumped Paraguay losing just six games in the two singles rubbers.

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        #28
        The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

        Konta and Watson just won their doubles match in the play-off against Croatia. So that means promotion to World Group II, right?

        [Edit: no, hang on, the BBC site says that winning that "play off" against fellow group winners Croatia qualifies GB to enter a World Group II play off match in April. A play off to decide who enters a play-off, eh? Well, either the Fed Cup has a complicated (or at least terminologically confusing) structure, or the BBC Sports editors are doing a crap job of explaining what the structure is. Either way, I feel after checking the BBC pages that I know very little about how it all works.]

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          #29
          The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

          Assuming (and it's big assumption) that it's like the Davis Cup, there needs to be a playoff against a team in the World Group who have lost their group match. But definitely they haven't got promoted yet.

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            #30
            The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

            Yep, that is right. What was going on in Tallinn was 14 countries in Europe/Africa Group 1 (split into four pools) competing for two spots in the World Group II play-offs in April. There was also one spot available in the Americas Group 1 (9 teams in two pools) and one spot in the Asia/Oceania Group 1 (7 teams in two pools). The internal structure of all the regional Group 1s ended on one off matches of pool winner vs pool winner to find the four teams to go on and play the losers of the ongoing World Group II 1st round matches. The winners of these April ties will be placed in World Group II for 2018, the losers heading to the geographically correct regional Group 1 next year (explaining the uneven numbers listed above across the three zones; the relegated teams last year didn't fit well with the gaps available)

            Alongside Britain in earning their spots from Regional Group 1 are Serbia, Canada and Kazakhstan.
            World Group II matches are all midway through. The scores after day one are:
            Russia 1-1 Taiwan
            Romania 0-2 Belgium
            Ukraine 2-0 Australia
            Italy 1-1 Slovakia

            The winners of the World Group II R1 matches will also play-off in April. They face the losers of the World Group R1 matches, the winners of these ties graduating to the main show in 2018, the losers playing in the second tier.

            World Group scores nearly after day one:
            Czechia 1-1 Spain
            USA 1-0 Germany (Vandeweghe is a set up on Goerges in the second rubber currently
            Belarus 1-1 Netherlands
            Switzerland 1-1 France

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              #31
              The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

              The Maui organisers had a live singer do the anthems, including both banned verses of the Deutschlandlied.

              Oops

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                #32
                The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                Von der Maas bis an die Memel!

                Embarrassing, though probably not as much as this was, back in 2012:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR18Pzbf-nY

                Edit: thanks Janik for the format explanation above.

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                  #33
                  The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                  Have to say, some in the German camp made a ridiculous big deal of the cock-up, e.g. Petkovic, as quoted on the BBC. I mean, for fuck's sake, if you keep the same damn song as before but just cut out a verse or two, instead of choosing a new song altogether, then an inadvertent rendition with the old verses included is an obvious accident-waiting-to-happen, and it ill behoves you to throw your sodding toys out of the pram when it actually does happen.

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                    #34
                    The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                    I dunno. I can see why it would be majorly upsetting. If it truly is "the worst thing that has ever happened" to Petkovic then she's led a very charmed life, but that level of hyperbole aside I think I can understand why a German might find it both traumatic and offensive.

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                      #35
                      The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                      Especially a German of the players' age, and with the current resurgence of the Far Right at home, not to mention in the US (though I wouldn't expect many Nazis in Maui)

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                        #36
                        The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                        Well, two things. First I think the "accident waiting to happen" point is unanswerable - if you're going to be offended by having a song rendered with its full original text then don't keep part of that same song as your national anthem. Or, if you do, take accidents a bit more in your stride.

                        And second, the full text is nothing to do with Nazi sentiment. It was written by a guy who died in 1874, and adopted as the German national anthem in 1922 largely because of its liberal and revolutionary assocations. It's just, as many anthem texts from the 19th century, a little out of kilter with modern sensibilities (and of course, when you get down to some of the detail, with Germany's reduced territorial extent). So it's hardly as if the hosts played the Horst Wessel song or started goose-stepping like Basil Fawlty.

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                          #37
                          The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                          Petkovic is a non-native born German of course. Her family is from Bosnia, though I'm not sure which of the three communities there. So this sort of thing might be particularly touchy for her. Even so, her comments do seem hyperbolic. Very much not her usual style, she is generally regarded as an intelligent and sensible person.

                          It was the start of a bad weekend for Germany, as the US won the match 4-0, Petkovic losing to both Riske on day 1 and Vandeweghe in the reverse singles. The US now host the Czechs in the Semis, with the other last four match being Belarus (who beat Netherlands 4-1 and did so without Azarenka) versus Switzerland (4-1 winners over France).

                          World Group II results were:-
                          Russia 4-1 Taiwan
                          Romania 1-3 Belgium
                          Ukraine 3-1 Australia
                          Italy 2-3 Slovakia

                          The World Group and World Group II play-offs will be seeded, with the top four sides facing the bottom four (i.e. Britain could play one of the other regional group winners). The rankings haven't been updated as yet, and I can't be bothered to work them out manually, so the below is only roughly what will happen. It's my best guess based on the 16th Nov rankings and a hand-wavy sense of how last week's action will change those.

                          World Group play-offs
                          France
                          Germany
                          Russia
                          Netherlands

                          Spain
                          Ukraine
                          Belgium
                          Slovakia

                          World Group II play-offs
                          Italy
                          Australia
                          Romania
                          Canada

                          Taiwan
                          Britain
                          Serbia
                          Kazakhstan

                          seeds in bold

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                            #38
                            The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                            Serbian father, Bosniak mother

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                              #39
                              The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                              Evariste Euler Gauss wrote: Well, two things. First I think the "accident waiting to happen" point is unanswerable - if you're going to be offended by having a song rendered with its full original text then don't keep part of that same song as your national anthem. Or, if you do, take accidents a bit more in your stride.

                              And second, the full text is nothing to do with Nazi sentiment. It was written by a guy who died in 1874, and adopted as the German national anthem in 1922 largely because of its liberal and revolutionary assocations. It's just, as many anthem texts from the 19th century, a little out of kilter with modern sensibilities (and of course, when you get down to some of the detail, with Germany's reduced territorial extent). So it's hardly as if the hosts played the Horst Wessel song or started goose-stepping like Basil Fawlty.
                              So what?

                              It is impossible for anyone with even the meanest intelligence or level of education to know that the first verse has been banned by the German Federal government, and that its use is proscribed.

                              It is an insult, pure and simple from the ignorant, the boorish, and the obnoxious.

                              Comment


                                #40
                                The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                Impossible? Hardly. Unawareness of that decision of the German government is likely to be rather common in the anglophone world. Place those two sets of lyrics in front of people and ask them to identify the correct current version of the German national anthem (indicating that the wrong choice would likely offend), and loads of non-boorish, non-obnoxious, possibly somewhat ignorant types will plump for the one with the opening line they recognise.

                                Additionally why do you assume you have even the remotest clue about the personality of the likely low level USTA functionary who mucked up their job googling this?

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                                  #41
                                  The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                  GB draw Romania away. Probably worst draw they could get, even if Halep doesn't play.

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                                    #42
                                    The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                    Venue decided by lot (as were the other three WGII play-offs). Frustrating. It's something like 20+ years since the British Fed Cup team last played a match at home.

                                    Full draws:

                                    World Group play-offs
                                    France [1] vs Spain
                                    Russia [2] vs Belgium
                                    Germany [3] vs Ukraine
                                    Slovakia vs Netherlands [4]

                                    World Group II play-offs
                                    Taiwan vs Italy [1]
                                    Romania [2] vs Britain
                                    Serbia vs Australia [3]
                                    Canada [4] vs Kazakhstan

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                                      #43
                                      The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                      The last time Britain played at home:- http://www.fedcup.com/en/draws-results/tie.aspx?id=W-FC-1993-G1-EPA-M-GBR-TUR-01

                                      Even if Britain beats Romania and gets a home tie next year, it will be 25 years. In fact, Britain have hardly ever played at home in their history in the Fed Cup and have never played a best-of-five contest. This is because for the first ~40 years of the competitions existence even the World Group was hosted at a single venue, over a week, with the same format that the regional groups retain.

                                      Britain's entire history of home games:-
                                      '63 - 3 matches (to SFs)
                                      '77 - 4 matches (to SFs)
                                      '91 - 2 matches (to R2)
                                      '93 - 5 matches (Won Regional Group 1)

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                                        #44
                                        The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                        So the Davis Cup QFs passed without comment here. Probably as Andy Murray-less Britain were predictably thrashed on clay by France. Who were themselves missing their no.1, 2, 4 and 5 singles players and opted to leave some others out for various reasons. For the record like.

                                        Results were:
                                        Belgium 3-2 Italy (decided in the fourth rubber)
                                        Australia 3-2 USA (decided in the fourth rubber)
                                        France 4-1 Britain (decided in the third rubber, i.e. at the earliest possible moment)
                                        Serbia 4-1 Spain (Djokovic played, Nadal didn't, decided in the third rubber)

                                        Semi-Final draw is:
                                        Belgium vs Australia
                                        France vs Serbia

                                        It was also the final matches of regional Group I, with Brazil, Colombia, Kazakhstan, India, Hungary, Netherlands, Belarus and Portugal winning through. These eight join the eight R1 World group losers for play-offs in September to decided the eight teams that will join the quarter-finalists above in next years world group.
                                        That draw looks like this:
                                        Kazakhstan vs Argentina
                                        Colombia vs Croatia
                                        Switzerland vs Belarus
                                        Netherlands vs Czechia
                                        Portugal vs Germany
                                        Japan vs Brazil
                                        Hungary vs Russia
                                        Canada vs India

                                        Maybe the Fed Cup Semis/Play-offs next week will draw more attention? Team nominations are being announced, with Britain unchanged for their very difficult looking away tie with Romania on clay.
                                        That means a squad of:
                                        Johanna Konta
                                        Heather Watson
                                        Laura Robson
                                        Jocelyn Rae

                                        I know Robson is experienced, and can play both Doubles and Singles, but so can Tara Moore and given their respective form it's hard to justify Laura's inclusion. Yes, clay is a bad surface for Moore but it's not like Robson is particularly adept at it either.
                                        Romania team is not yet out, but Simona Halep has said she is playing. Given that the Romanian no.5 (Tig) is ranked higher than the British no.2 (Watson), one would have to put the hosts as extremely strong favourites.

                                        World Group Semis are:
                                        USA vs Czech Rep
                                        Belarus vs Switzerland

                                        The Czechs have announced their side, and it is seriously depleted. No Karolina Pliskova, no Strycova and Safarova either, in addition to the obvious absence of Kvitova. Not even a Hlavackova or Hradecka for Doubles. It leaves a team of:
                                        Katerina Siniakova #38, #17d
                                        Kristyna Pliskova #58
                                        Denisa Allertova #107
                                        Marketa Vondrousova #233 (but a very recent Junior no.1)

                                        Whether this will be good enough or not to keep the Czechs run of titles going depends very much on who wants to play for the US. There are 8 American women in the top 50 at the moment, and another 6 between 50-100. Plus the World Doubles no.1 in Bethanie Mattek-Sands (and wouldn't be facing her most regular partner Lucie Safarova as Lucie isn't playing for the Czechs). If they can't find four willing players to form a very strong team from that, then something is going badly astray.

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                                          #45
                                          The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                          Woah, it's like deja vu all over again...

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                                            #46
                                            The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                            Oddly, the board won't let you post absolutely identical things on separate threads. Presumably an anti-spam protection. So the one on the old thread got replaced with a link to this one before it re-appeared here.

                                            Comment


                                              #47
                                              The Salad Bowl and the... Women's Salad Bowl?

                                              So it appears Nastase called Konta 'A fucking bitch' amongst a tirade of shouting and swearing today. Credit to Konta that she held her nerve to come out again and win. This is on top of his racist slur at Serena Williams and aggressive behaviour towards a journalist. He's absolutely lost it.

                                              If he hasn't already been kicked out, I doubt we'll see Nastase again in this tournament.

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                                                #48
                                                Semis live on BBC website:
                                                http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/tennis/41153092
                                                Last edited by Kevin S; 15-09-2017, 14:33.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Both matches nicely poised after Day 1, each standing at 1-1.

                                                  In Brussels David Goffin beat John Millman in the first rubber, coming back from a set down. And then Nick Kyrgios recovered from a 2-1 deficit (one of the last players who is ever going to do that) to beat Steve Darcis 3-2. The doubles tomorrow is nominally Bemelmans/De Greef vs Peers/Thompson, but with so much riding on it there must be a good chance that Goffin and Kyrgios end up playing.

                                                  And in Lille Dusan Lajovic upset the rankings to beat Lucas Pouille 3-1 before Jo-Willy Tsonga pulled rank 3-0 on Laslo Djere. Both of these teams have doubles specialists to wheel out tomorrow, Herbert/Mahut taking on Krajinovic/Zimonjic (only Nenad Zimonjic on the Serbian side being a noted doubles player). The French must be favourites for that.

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                                                    #50
                                                    It was probably a good thing for GB they didn't manage to win their quarter-final, as they'd have struggled to put out a team this week. Murray and Edmund injured, Evans suspended, Bedene ineligible. Norrie and Clarke maybe? They might have been able to field a decent doubles team I suppose.

                                                    Yannick Noah basically blamed himself for Pouille's defeat, claiming he got himself too stressed and was putting everyone else off. Apparently Tsonga told him to calm down and butt out and just let him beat Djere.

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