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Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi (spoilers)

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    #26
    Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
    I was a bit disappointed that Chewie didn't really have any role in this movie. Though him and the roasted porg was funny.
    Yeah, it’s a bit sad really but without Han he’s hanging around searching for a role like Ernie without Eric or Corbett without Barker.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 18-12-2017, 21:17.

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      #27
      Albert Burneko lists the ways this movie tries to do away with Star Wars mythology.

      I also really like this comment he left in response to a comment calling TLJ the "most un-Star Wars movie ever made":

      The Empire Strikes Back is in many ways a near opposite of the original Star Wars—but, since it was only a sequel to a single popular movie and not the eighth iteration of a decades-old franchise, nobody thought to say “This movie is the most un-Star Wars movie!” There was no particular definition of what a Star Wars movie had to be; it didn’t have to be anything other than set in the Star Wars universe and connected to the story of Star Wars. It didn’t have to deal with all the ridiculous amount of baggage that comes with following on seven of the most widely discussed and obsessed-over movies ever made. It, like the original, had the freedom to just be the coolest and most surprising Star Wars movie it could be... and, not coincidentally, those are the two loosest and best Star Wars movies, by light years.

      But that’s just the thing: The only way to try to get back to that freedom is to make a movie that refuses to wear all the previous movies around its neck like seven giant millstones, that claims for itself the discretion to define and uphold the essential Star Wars stuff and gleefully discard all the rest. And an inevitable consequence of making that movie is, a certain cross-section of fans, who feel they know what a Star Wars movie should be and feel entitled to demand that from the creators of each next one—who want each new Star Wars movie to return to everything they liked about each previous one—will recoil from it. As much as anything else, that’s what I think The Last Jedi is about: Both the movie itself and pretty much all its characters are openly wrestling with the baggage of what came before them, trying to sort out what’s worth upholding and what ought to be sloughed off.

      But The Last Jedi, in my opinion, doesn’t quite side with Kylo Ren’s take, that the past is all garbage and must be completely shat on and killed. It works its way to the incredibly awesome Ghost Yoda’s mischievous equanimity, in the end: All of this solemn shit is only as cool and good as the freedom the youths have to play with it and use their own imaginations to bring it to life.

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        #28
        Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
        Albert Burneko lists the ways this movie tries to do away with Star Wars mythology.

        I also really like this comment he left in response to a comment calling TLJ the "most un-Star Wars movie ever made":
        I agree with that take

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          #29
          “The incredibly awesome ghost Yoda”...

          No, sorry, don’t agree. Seemed about as awesome as him appearing in an ad.

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            #30
            Saw this tonight. Loved it.

            Now to read this thread and see what you lot made of it.

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              #31
              Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
              I was a bit disappointed that Chewie didn't really have any role in this movie. Though him and the roasted porg was funny.
              What? He was flying the Millennium Falcon through a mine at the end.

              R2 was very underused.

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                #32
                Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                The flightless bird is called Porg. Apparently there are flocks of them on the island where Luke trains Rey. Toys R Us is full of them. This is Jar Jar levels of bad.
                I was wrong. They were daft but in very limited doses which made them bearable. Although I wasn't sure about the island caretakers and Mrs Thistle felt that there were too many weird animals by the end, what with the crystal critters as well.

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                  #33
                  Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                  There's also a First Order rolly ball droid called BB-9E. It's black.
                  Given this droid's prominence in the merchandising, it did nothing. I was expecting a droid duel off with BB-8, but nope.

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                    #34
                    So overall then, lots to like. Although I thought the fleet being chased thing was a bit wearing by the end. Pretty sure the transports were getting wiped out too fast at the end.

                    I'm still not sure how the geopolitics work in the Galaxy. Surely the Republic was more than a handful of planets. What is going on on Coruscant?

                    They killed off Admiral Ackbar!!! Bastards!

                    But Leia can survive and fly through space. The only real WTF moment.

                    Finn's "Rebel Scum" line was great.

                    Rey's parents were drunks who sold their kid to Unku Plutt? That's fucking dark for a Star Wars movie!

                    The bad guys are the arms dealers who supply both sides. Whoah. That's an interesting turn.

                    There were lots of "jukes" throughout. Poe's failed mutiny. Snoke's death - although I was quite pleased about that. I thought they were going to kill off Finn at the end. Luke not being there after all, but then joining the force and dying on the island anyway.

                    Yoda! "Page-turners they were not!" Anyone else see that Rey had nicked the texts and stashed them on the Falcon before Yoda torched the tree temple?

                    Kylo asking Rey to join him. Very Empire Strikes Back.

                    Daisy Ridley is just amazing. I love Rey. The bit where she reaches out for the force - hahaha.

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                      #35
                      I thought there was something different about Chewbacca in this film. I checked and, yes, it's the first time peter Mayhew has not played him.

                      I think I'd like to see the film again before making up my mind about it. Parts of it were great, others less so. My main problem is the fact that I have always thought that mark Hamill has struggled to pull off the all-powerful Jedi role. Farmboy, in the first film, yes he's perfect for it. Jedi-in-training in empire, yes he's still very believable. But from Jedi onwards he just can't pull off the full-on mystical Jedi character he's supposed to be, in my opinion anyway.

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                        #36
                        Peter Mayhew was crowd funding two knee operations not so long ago. Star Wars hasn't been kind to him.

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                          #37
                          Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                          . It suspect regicide is very common among the Sith.
                          Yes it's their MO. There is a 'Rule of Two' - the Master and Apprentice. To become the Master the Apprentice must kill their master. This keeps masters on their toes. It also explains why they often lie and manipulate the apprentices, as Sidious does to Anakin Skywalker.

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                            #38
                            I thought the film was pretty good. But I didn't walk out of it wanting to go straight back in and watch it again, like I did with Force Awakens.
                            I suspect part of that is to do with Force Awakens being such a breath of freshly recycled air compared to the abysmal prequels, but still...

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                              #39
                              So, the morning after, some more critical comments.

                              Poe is a bit of a dick really. Unaffected by the loss of the bomber squadron and the cost in lives of his successful plan.

                              Far too many unnamed Resistance extras get wasted. But if you're a main character you'll be fine.

                              The tracking through Hyperspace thing was stolen from the reboot of Battlestar Galactica. I had a nagging sense I'd seen that before. Maybe that's why I found that part of the story slightly drawn out.

                              If Luke really didn't want to be found, why did he leave a map in pieces that was the McGuffin for Force Awakens?

                              Is there anything BB-8 can't do? Scoutwalker pilot, now.

                              How does Poe know Maz? He was flying an X-Wing over Takonada. Why wasn't Finn leading that conversation.

                              The meeting between Poe and Rey - looks to me like they're setting up a love story there.

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                                #40
                                I thought I saw the Jedi texts being stashed on the Falcon at the end, good to have it confirmed.

                                My friend’s blog points out they were setting up Empire research in to tracking through hyperspace in ‘Rogue One’ set decades before TLJ. Edit - ah, just seen he spotted the Jedi texts too.
                                Last edited by Ray de Galles; 20-12-2017, 12:52.

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                                  #41
                                  I thought they were setting up a love triangle with Finn, Rose, and Rey. Mrs. Inca thinks that Finn and Rey were never meant to be together. I still think that Finn and Poe is a possibility outside of fan fiction.

                                  For serving a far more important role in the story (uh...basically saving all of the resistance by showing how to escape the cave), the crystal foxes got no marketing and merchandise love.

                                  I really want to see it again, if for nothing than to see the moment that I had to take my daughter to the bathroom (when Luke was first training Rey), and also to see Luke hovering above the rock sitting cross legged. Who knows, maybe I'll still start crying when Luke sees the two suns of Tatooine and the music cue comes up before he evaporates.

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                                    #42
                                    Saw it two nights ago (French subtitles damn'em).
                                    Left a bit deflated, I am not sure why, been mulling over the past two days....
                                    1. The Finn/Rose sub plot was one waste of time, in fact if Finn had woken up from his hospital bubble, right at the end he would have affected the story just as much.
                                    2. Poe is very punchable
                                    3. I really liked the Luke/Ren scenes, and Luke's holo finale was great
                                    4. Ben/Kylo was far less irritating than the last outing, and I quite warmed to him.
                                    5. As Toro said on his Facebook, Laura Dern's hair dresser is person of the year - I would have loved her too say "Fuck you flyboy" to Poe in true Diane/Tulpa style.
                                    6. Of the three main characters in the original trilogy, the only one alive in the films is the only one dead in real life.

                                    Still can't pin down why I was so disappointed, maybe I was expecting too much, after Rogue One.

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                                      #43
                                      I liked this feminist take on TLJ. The comments are good too.
                                      http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoy.../12/34598.html

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                                        #44
                                        Some relevant stuff in that, but I’m not getting the bunting out cos Star Wars belatedly enters the modern world. Strong suspicion, too, that Rose and Rey both serve marketing and distribution functions.

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                                          #45
                                          Though, apparently, in some quarters being vaguely critical of Rey or Rose makes me a FANBOY MYSOGYNIST...

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                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by VTTBoscombe View Post
                                            Saw it two nights ago (French subtitles damn'em).
                                            Left a bit deflated, I am not sure why, been mulling over the past two days....
                                            1. The Finn/Rose sub plot was one waste of time, in fact if Finn had woken up from his hospital bubble, right at the end he would have affected the story just as much.
                                            2. Poe is very punchable
                                            3. I really liked the Luke/Ren scenes, and Luke's holo finale was great
                                            4. Ben/Kylo was far less irritating than the last outing, and I quite warmed to him.
                                            5. As Toro said on his Facebook, Laura Dern's hair dresser is person of the year - I would have loved her too say "Fuck you flyboy" to Poe in true Diane/Tulpa style.
                                            6. Of the three main characters in the original trilogy, the only one alive in the films is the only one dead in real life.

                                            Still can't pin down why I was so disappointed, maybe I was expecting too much, after Rogue One.
                                            1) No it wasn't. It explored another area of how that world operates under the Imperial boot and develops the motivations of the rebels. It's for the shat-upon like those stable kids and for people like Rose who where displaced by the fascists. And having a caper like that actually fail was an interesting twist. Molly Templeton explains it well here. https://www.tor.com/2017/12/21/why-c...the-last-jedi/

                                            2) Poe is punchable. That's the point. It's yet another aspect of the film showing how flashy heroes with their daring gambits are not what will win the war or what makes it worthwhile. Whereas in the first films, the reckless fly-boy won the main heroine's love by persistence, in these films, we see older and wiser women not putting up with that any more. Poe wasted their whole bomber fleet just to take down one of the Empire's capital ships, but they had a much bigger one anyway. I was a Pyrrhic victory. And now he's letting his impatience get the best of him again and wont' trust the new commander. She could, I suppose, just explain her plan. Maybe she is afraid to say it out loud in case the empire can hear them through a bug or some kind of other tech.

                                            It's sort of deconstructing the first three films in that way, but in in a way that is more consistent with how Yoda and Kenobi described the force. It's not a power held by a select few. It's the ground of all being. And, as Yoda says, "Ohhh. Great warrior? Wars not make one great!"

                                            3) Indeed.

                                            4) It's brilliant casting. Adam Driver is believable as a fighter - he served in the military, after all, and is tall - but his most famous role before this was as an annoying hipster on Girls, IIRC. He is, a bit like Hamlet and so many young men in the real world, both full of anger and full of indecision.

                                            5) I'm just sad that she died. I guess she wanted to do a Star Wars movie but didn't want to commit past one film.
                                            She's a great feminist character https://www.tor.com/2017/12/21/star-...r/#more-323948

                                            6) Chewbacca lives!! Besides, Ghost Luke will come back. I hope we might also see more of Ghost Yoda and perhaps Ghost Obi-Wan played by Ewan McGregor (why would anyone chose to appear in their old-man form?) and maybe Ghost Qui-Gon Jinn


                                            Having now seen it twice, I love it even more. Like I said, it's turning the original trilogy's themes on their head, but in a way that is actually more consistent with the vision of the Force and the rebellion-vs-empire what not described in those films, and does a much better job of doing that than the prequels.

                                            I see that a lot of fans don't like it because of that. It's remarkable how conservative geek culture can be - in the real world political sense too - and insist that every new story in their favorite franchise rehash the ones they loved. I am also disappointed when a character or franchise I love just goes off into a different direction that doesn't make any sense, or is, in my opinion, not as interesting or appealing as I think it could have been, but I don't think the new Star Wars films fit that description at all. Indeed they seem to be directly addressing some of the flaws in the first trilogy that critics have brought out over the last 40 years - too white, too macho/male, too Joseph Campbelly, etc. One of the common criticisms is that the Jedi were actually a huge failure - Kenobi failed to keep Vader from going evil and even Yoda failed to see and stop the rise of Dark Sidious into Emperor Palpatine. This film tries to address that by saying "yeah, Jedi are not omnipotent. We were all just doing our best like everyone else and learning from mistakes." This film even addresses that old complaint about how parsecs are a unit of distance, not time, by using it that way. (Although Lucas addressed this before, apparently (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kessel_Run)


                                            This is very helpful. I haven't watched all the animated shows and what not. I find them a bit tedious (written for kids) but like that all of this has been thought out. I'm a fan of absurd world-building.
                                            http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timel..._Temptation-35

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                                              #47
                                              Originally posted by Felicity, I guess so View Post
                                              Though, apparently, in some quarters being vaguely critical of Rey or Rose makes me a FANBOY MYSOGYNIST...
                                              Would you prefer that all the characters be white and male? (I'm assuming not, so I don't get your point).

                                              There's plenty to criticize about their actions, but that's because they're fully thought-out characters with flaws. Young women who are very brave and self-less, but also don't understand a lot about how their world works and are confused by what their path should be, and Rey is naive about how bad bad people can be and too optimistic that a symbol like Luke can just turn everything around. That's consistent with their characters background.

                                              Also. Notice that Rey changed her outfit between her time with Luke in Ireland-planet and her confrontation with Kylo Ren. So she brought a whole other outfit? Where'd she get it?

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                                                #48
                                                I’m a complete cynic about the whole franchise so to be lumped in with ‘fanboy mysogynists’ amused me.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Now I know it's a children's movie. And I know it's a star wars movie, and taking all the relevant qualifiers in consideration. I wanted to douse myself in petrol and set myself on fire after about half an hour. Its a fucking neverending stinking pile of horseshit. It's the Spiderman 3 of space bollocks.

                                                  The Last movie was essentially "lets wrest this story away from that gobshite lucas, and put a proper action movie director in charge of it." and it was great as these things go.

                                                  This movie was "Lets hope that no-one has seen the original three movies because we're going to be drawing heavily on the second one, but we'll take bits from the other ones too." Something that really annoyed me is the the dynamic between Bernie Bro Poe, and princess Hilary, admiral Debbie Wasserman schultz and rear admiral Donna fucking Brazile. The Rash young hothead doesn't realise that their plan, which is ostensibly the OJ Simpson bronco chase in space, is a cunning ruse. and it works so well that at the end of it they can fit the entire rebellion in the boot of the Millennium Falcon. A bit like the DNC on Earth.

                                                  There was something that they really needed to avoid with Luke out on Skellig Micheal, if you're going to have a Monk, who is gone into hiding, because of an incident involving children, and if he refuses to talk about it, you're almost relieved when he finally admits that he only tried to kill Kylo Ren, rather than grope him in his sleep. The Only shame that he should be feeling is that he made a balls of it. I was asking people afterwards who is this Adam Driver cunt and I was told that he was very good in Girls. and if ever a man has been imprisoned in a tank of lena Dunhams faeces for so long that it has seeped into his every pore, it's him. Christ he's terrible. Though the transformation from 35 year old former marine, into whinging insane teenage narcissist indicates that he can act, even if he's only acting the Cunt. Every second he is on the screen you can feel the sands of time falling through your metaphorical hourglass. The Only thing missing from him to be the textbook definition that an old cunt has of millenials, was a line from him saying that he'd rather eat avocado toast than save for the deposit for a house.

                                                  And as for Rey, well if you're going to have a heroine who comes from nothing and was abandoned as a child by her abusive scum parents, at least try and get her to seem less upper middle class. Her posh girl having an adventurous gap year dynamic wore very thin, very quickly. At least Jon Snow and Ygritte managed to hide the fact that he's minor nobility, and she grew up in a fucking castle. You get a sense from her that no matter how dangerous she is with a light sabre, she could do real damage with a hockey stick.

                                                  Oh and the humour. Christ above, it all looks like it was added in in post production when someone realised that the movie was going to grim out everyone. I'll never understand that a movie that contains so much action and has scenes where people are moving around really fast, can seem to be sooooooo slow.

                                                  Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 23-12-2017, 15:39.

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                                                    #50
                                                    But apart from that you liked it.

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