The Brexit Thread

[DCI Harry Batt]

As I said before - delay is covered in A50 itself, and the court case has absolutely no bearing on it in law:

3

. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

[johnr]

Thanks Ton Ton.

Regarding much of the previous couple of pages, if Nick Cohen's stopped clock was at least right twice a day as suggested, he's also made a brilliant case for ole Two Brains Starmer to either be a) a fully signed up disaster socialist, or b) the stupidest man on the planet.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Or very ambitious and thinks this is the best way to get into government?

[ad hoc]

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1074226111645659136

[Levin]

Ha, I think I'll pick handball.

Hey! The GB U18 team beat Ireland in the M18 Championship (the tier below the Euros) this summer. And only lost to Montenegro, Czech, Ukraine, Turkey and Kosovo. I bet they were all delighted to to take such a big name scalp.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Switzerland and the UK are quite busy finalising agreements for their post Brexit relationship, be it after the transition or next March in case of no deal. A trade one has been signed off and today they signed another one for air traffic. Road transports also completed...

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Or very ambitious and thinks this is the best way to get into government?

Or he thinks that when push comes to shove that something more positive will happen.

There seems to be a lot of talk coming out of the cabinet about a second referendum.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Downing Street said there would be an announcement “shortly” about how an extra £2bn will be allocated for no-deal Brexit planning. The cabinet will discuss this issue at its regular meeting tomorrow, and Philip Hammond, the chancellor, has already said that an announcement about how the £2bn will be spent is imminent. He tweeted this earlier this month.

"Let's spend it on the NHS".

[Tubby Isaacs]

- If there were a free vote, there might be no majority of anything. Based on what we know of opinion in the Commons, it is likely that MPs could vote on a range of options (no deal, Canada, Norway plus, a referendum), only for them all to fail. There is precedent for this. In 2003 Tony Blair give MPs the chance to vote on seven alternative options for House of Lords reform. They were all rejected, in an outcome that was at the time deemed almost farcical.

Yep. No majority for anything means No Deal. It doesn't need to win a vote to happen.

But I suppose at least somebody's found a precedent somewhere.

[Satchmo Distel]

re. "free vote"

MPs seem to ignore the whips anyway on Brexit votes, or am I missing something? How much difference would a "free vote" make? Are we going to see cross-party alliances?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

That German video is a pretty good representation of where the people of the EU 27 are with Brexit. Even if this all gets resolved with a second referendum, the UK is going to be the laughing stock of the european union for a couple of decades. Even Italy will be held in higher esteem.

[johnr]

Or he thinks that when push comes to shove that something more positive will happen.

Well, judging by yours and Tubby's answers here, stupidity of one form or another seems to be his defining characteristic.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Even the Swiss are at it...the joint currency plan is rather good...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multime...itain/44593580

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well, judging by yours and Tubby's answers here, stupidity of one form or another seems to be his defining characteristic.

I didn't say he was stupid.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

History tells us that Very intelligent and capable people are perfectly likely to wind up getting involved in stupid things if they aren't aware of one or two key facts. And literally everyone in the UK is messed up on a number of details, as a result of having to operate inside the UK political bubble. The position of the leadership of the labour party isn't that they will step in post brexit and build a new jerusalem in the ruins of a decadent state, it's that they need to tread this middle course in order to keep their broad coalition together. It merely works out much the same way.

[Tubby Isaacs]

You can also be too clever and think your opponent is playing a cannier game than they really are.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Even if this all gets resolved with a second referendum, the UK is going to be the laughing stock of the european union for a couple of decades.

I would love to be able to say that that indiscriminate ridicule against Britain and the British as a whole is unfair on the 48%. But actually, given that most of the 48% have been showing that they barely grasp the magnitude of the disaster, by sticking with "jobs first Brexit" Labour rather than supporting one of the political parties which have been working hard to try to reverse the castastrophe, it's pretty fair to much of the 48% too.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

There's a problem with using the word stupid. When you use it people think you are talking about a persons raw intelligence, like their ability to do sudukos, or the times crossword. But it's usually got nothing to do with that, and is more down to lack of curiosity, or a cultural blindspot, or being trapped in a bubble that misleads you into making horrendous mistakes. For instance Irish people over 65 are over 90% in favour of staying in the EU, People over 65 in the UK were 60% in favour of leaving in the referendum. Irish old people aren't really all that much different to people from the UK of the same age. They're not more intelligent on average, They simply haven't been drowned in the same bullshit all their lives. It's a different type of bullshit.

[Nefertiti2]

I would love to be able to say that that indiscriminate ridicule against Britain and the British as a whole is unfair on the 48%. But actually, given that most of the 48% have been showing that they barely grasp the magnitude of the disaster, by sticking with "jobs first Brexit" Labour rather than supporting one of the political parties which have been working hard to try to reverse the castastrophe, it's pretty fair to much of the 48% too.

Parties like the Lib Dems whose current and previous leader decided not to attend a vote to bring down the government, you mean.

[Flynnie]

I would love to be able to say that that indiscriminate ridicule against Britain and the British as a whole is unfair on the 48%. But actually, given that most of the 48% have been showing that they barely grasp the magnitude of the disaster, by sticking with "jobs first Brexit" Labour rather than supporting one of the political parties which have been working hard to try to reverse the castastrophe, it's pretty fair to much of the 48% too.

[ooh aah]

Yeah the 48% are stupid for not trusting a political party that broke one of it's key election pledges to jump into to a coalition with a party that most of it's own voters and even members absolutely detested. Idiots.

Ah, Flynnie proves that a picture paints a thousand words

[Tubby Isaacs]

You can't bring the government down if the votes aren't there.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This'll cheer everyone up.

Theresa May is seeking advice on Brexit from Cameron.

[johnr]

I didn't say he was stupid.

He'd be stupid because, if he's trying to get to the top but fronting up such a terrible strategy, he'd be harming his own career.

[Satchmo Distel]

There's a problem with using the word stupid. When you use it people think you are talking about a persons raw intelligence, like their ability to do sudukos, or the times crossword. But it's usually got nothing to do with that, and is more down to lack of curiosity, or a cultural blindspot, or being trapped in a bubble that misleads you into making horrendous mistakes. For instance Irish people over 65 are over 90% in favour of staying in the EU, People over 65 in the UK were 60% in favour of leaving in the referendum. Irish old people aren't really all that much different to people from the UK of the same age. They're not more intelligent on average, They simply haven't been drowned in the same bullshit all their lives. It's a different type of bullshit.

Critical thinking is the key. It seemed to disappear pre-Brexit from many crucial outlets - BBC, Guardian, much of the education system. If it is in permanent decline we are fucked and can forget about democracy ever working.