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    Is she just running the clock down and hoping that in the end enough MPs will panic to get her wretched deal through at the last minute? Cliff drop exit due to farcical incompetence ahoy!

    Having enlightened us on her love of Geoffrey Boycott, perhaps she will reveal that her favourite football manager was Alan Ball.

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      The Government has defeated the Government's deal.

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        That could obviously be improved, but the changes aren't huge at any level and the richest are paying more. The poorest decile lose less than half of one percent, which isn't good but it doesn't justify this shitstorm. This is what the IFS found the manifestos at the 2017 General Election were like.



        It's a nuisance that that analysis is in £s, not percentages, but I'll try and compare. My reading of that is that Corbyn' hitting the richest decile a bit harder than Macron. The second richest decile get off scot free from Corbyn, but not Macron. And he really hammers the poor. The IFS aren't perfect- as Simon Wren-Lewis points out, they don't allow for positive macro by Corbyn and union changes, which are positive. But no way do they make up for the strongly regressive underlying fiscal plans.

        So, your reaction to this is that we should have elected the Lib Dems, and if that Corbyn guy had got elected, there should have been big protests, and definitely no fuel tax rises because he wasn't addressing the richest people causing climate change, right?

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          John will saying something about me saying "Corbyn" when I should say "Labour". He'd be right about that, because I'm sure Corbyn personally would be more progressive. But Corbyn isn't the only politician who has to worry about votes. So do all the others.

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            https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1072128450322972673

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              My reaction Tubby is that you need to pay attention to the fact that the poor need more money in their pocket, not less. A Green New deal., And compelling serious change fromthe very wealthy and the big carbon consumers.

              Let's leave this thread for it, though -there's global warming thread, isn't there?

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                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                My reaction Tubby is that you need to pay attention to the fact that the poor need more money in their pocket, not less. A Green New deal., And compelling serious change fromthe very wealthy and the big carbon consumers.

                Let's leave this thread for it, though -there's global warming thread, isn't there?
                There is, and a French thread where some of this would be more appropriate.

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                  Black Wednesday's an interesting comparison. For a while before it, there was talk of the unemployed and those with houses repossessed taking one for the economy. If we get No Deal, the fucked over will be told they're taking one for democracy.

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                    Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View Post
                    I'm sure maintaining bin collections as frequently as once a month was a brave political choice too because Welsh people don't actually deserve the same standard of public services every other country in the global north enjoys.
                    Yeah, whatever.

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                      "No deal" must be the favourite outcome now, I would think, even though it's the least popular option on the table.

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                        Talking about the pound, some hilarity from the Telegraph before the last election.

                        The pound is in for “a rough ride” if the Conservatives lose the general election, currency traders and analysts believe, after a number of strong polls for Labour sent the currency into a tumble late last week.

                        Sterling could fall by another 5pc on a Labour victory, forcing the currency down to $1.20 against the dollar. The pound has not been below this level for a prolonged period at any time since the 1980s.

                        Against the euro the pound could fall to as low as €1.08 to $1.09, a level not seen since the depths of the financial crisis.
                        It did reach 1.10 Eur, not long after that. It did recover a bit, but it's 1.11 now. May's got a chance to send it nearer 1.09 this afternoon when she speaks. If she doesn't manage that this time, she could maybe go to Brussels and get to told to fuck off.

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                          It appears that the Government has spent £100k in the last week on Facebook adverts promoting the deal, which of course the general public couldn't vote on.

                          I've seen plenty of the adverts, and they are still turning up on my Twitter feed, in between the tweets talking about the vote being delayed and what a fucking shambles said Government is.

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                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                            "No deal" must be the favourite outcome now, I would think, even though it's the least popular option on the table.
                            Not after that ruling that A50 can be unilaterally revoked/delayed, I'd have thought.

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                              Yep. And what was the point of public debates (assuming May was at all sincere) with no public vote? Were we all going to phone up our MPs and tell them to vote for the deal, or something?

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                                johnr, if you really believe that, you should be buying sterling, as the markets clearly disagree.

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                                  Originally posted by johnr View Post
                                  Not after that ruling that A50 can be unilaterally revoked/delayed, I'd have thought.
                                  The EU could refuse to accept the revocation, I'd have thought

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                                    The ruling doesn't allow the EU to refuse to accept. Then it wouldn't be unilateral.

                                    The difficulty is that the request to revoke has to get through parliament.

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                                      Is she just running the clock down and hoping that in the end enough MPs will panic to get her wretched deal through at the last minute?
                                      Yes. And to be fair, running the clock down is not a bad strategy, if your plan is to get a deal, any deal, through. I still think the most likely outcome is this deal, or something basically the same in substance, gets passed ultimately.

                                      If you're trying to do what's best for the country, of course, it's a terrible strategy.

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                                        The ruling doesn't allow the EU to refuse to accept. Then it wouldn't be unilateral.

                                        The difficulty is that the request to revoke has to get through parliament.
                                        OK, understood. So how would that request play out?

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                                          In parliament, or in the EU? According to the judgment, if the UK revokes according to its constitutional requirements (ie with a parliamentary vote), that's it. It's as if it never sent the Article 50 letter in the first place.

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                                            Alas, it seems I was far too optimistic about politicians understanding that a backstop is a backstop:

                                            https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1072131209231298560

                                            This is insane if true.

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                                              Surely the issue is that for the vast majority of MPs opposing the deal the backstop is a convenient figleaf to hide behind when really they oppose it for other reasons (want to remain, want to bring down the government, want to bring down May, want a no deal outcome etc), rather than that they don't understand that a backstop is a backstop - though reading, say, Graham Brady's quotes today makes you wonder.

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                                                The Speaker is advocating MPs being able to vote on whether the debate is curtailed - a vote on the vote (or otherwise). Speaker evidently annoyed at the Government's actions.

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                                                  Good chance the government might lose if they do. DUP would vote with them, and probably the remainers, but not so sure ERG would.

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                                                    Pound down a bit more. 1.10 Euro. Come on, I'm sure the Tories can get it to this disastrous 1.09 (a "Corbyn") that The Telegraph was worried about.

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