The Brexit Thread

[Duncan Gardner]

Nor does anyone else in his Government admittedly.

[Tubby Isaacs]

John, Labour aren't in favour of the Single Market. They need to be.

[johnr]

'“exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union' is the formulation. Many have pointed out that's impossible, but it's not about the possibility, it's about setting it up so Labour votes against the deal. Starmer is clever enough to know that May isn't going to come back with anything that Labour can vote yes on.

[Tubby Isaacs]

"Exact same benefits" is pure cakeism.

[Tubby Isaacs]

.

[Lang Spoon]

So Labour then ensure a cliff edge no deal, especially as they have never engaged with the Single Market except for fantasy bullshit about reforming EU immigration policy as their wag of maybes accepting a single market. Legitimate concerns bullshit as egregious as any Caroline Flint/Frank Field fucker. It’s far too late for a reverse ferret now. Useless.

[johnr]

"Exact same benefits" is pure cakeism.

...you know that, I know that, but your point seems to be that Starmer doesn't? Really?

Of course it's cakeism, that's the point.

[Tubby Isaacs]

So why not come up with a policy that passes Labour's own tests?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

What exactly is Labour's apparently ideological opposition to the EU? Some wistful notion of protecting British manufacturing and coal production from EU quotas? I've got news for them if that's it. Surely a pan-European union is a very socialist ideal at its core?

[Eggchaser]

If they're that worried about coal production they can team up with those nice UKIP people and bring us back to pea soupers and massive industrial disease.

Fuck coal.

[johnr]

(To Tubbs)
They will, when they have to. Despite the frantic-ness around Brexit, they don't have to, yet.

May's done for. She/Raab are even trying the 'Labour is supporting a 2nd Referendum, we're the only ones who respect the people's will' gambit, cos they've nothing left. There's no way No Deal will get through Parliament, and it's vanishingly unlikely that Chequers will either. When Starmer needs to be clear, he will.

I get the anger about the ambivalence of Labour's position, really. Many/most of us are frightened/appalled etc at what Brexit has done/will do to us. But folk who have been trying to get Labour to 'Stop/reverse Brexit' the last two years have, for reasons mentioned way back on this thread, been barking up the wrong tree - mainly cos Labour has never had the power to stop it.

Anyway, I'm off out, have a good day.

[johnr]

(To Rogin)
It's Remain and Reform. It was for the Referendum vote, and it'll be something similar to that when we have a GE, I reckon (though 'it might have to be 'Rejoin and Reform' by then...)

[Moonlight Shadow]

Back in the 80's and early 90's, the French socialists were not too pleased with the EU. The Single Market was greeted without great enthusiasm. Columns about how the EU had become a free marketers racket, heavily influenced by ideologies from across the sea.

It's mad to think the main driver behind that "neo-liberal" surge was the UK and it had the French left fuming. A few years later, when Italy and Germany were about to tear apart the draft agreement with Switzerland over trucking issues, it was the UK who turned them around, thus ensuring the first package of bilaterals was signed off. There can't be another country in the world where a vociferous section of the media and one of the ruling parties downplays how influential their country is in a supra-national organisation and the world biggest economic bloc whilst depicting it as enslaved to a faceless burocracy that needs to be escaped.

[Lang Spoon]

But the UK will have absolutely no leverage in reforming the EU after this clusterfuck. The EU is a rules based organization that can’t afford cakeist contagion. As MS says above, for good or ill the EU since 73 has been substantially shaped by the UK. Now all that is pissed away, which isn’t Labour’s fault of course, but instead of building a coalition against the economic liberals within the EU, it seems as happy as the Tories to cast stuff like rail policy or procurement as the work of the Brussels hegemony.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well, here comes May. I'll wait and read a summary, I think.

[Kevin S]

This is awkward.

[Kevin S]

May in summary: We've fucked ourselves, but it's the EU's fault.

[Guy Profumo]

I thought she was about to quote Churchill at one point.

Something about having to spend hours on the beaches?

[Moonlight Shadow]

Well, looks my Brexit Food Box is becoming a serious project. Read an excellent suggestion on Twitter, do stock up some dried/canned goods, just in a case and if things turn out allright, donate it to a foodbank.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Is she going to declare war?

[gt3]

Been lurking here on this thread awhile... I was looking at a cross border claim the other day, and thought it might be sensible to see what HMG's technical paper had to say about such claims post 29/03/2019:


"The effect on ongoing civil and family cases

We will seek to provide legal certainty for businesses, families and individuals who are involved in ongoing cases on exit day. Broadly speaking, cases ongoing on exit day will continue to proceed under the current rules. However, we cannot guarantee that EU courts will follow the same principle, nor that EU courts will accept or recognise any judgments stemming from these cases. Individuals with cases in progress on 29 March are encouraged to seek legal advice on how this may affect them

<SHAKES HEAD IN UTTER DISBLIEF>

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-family-cases

[Tubby Isaacs]

The pound isn't looking very good.

[anton pulisov]

So the UK wants to stop paying their Netflix subscription but still have access to Netflix, and Mrs. May has now said that it is up to Netflix to come up with a solution.

[Ginger Yellow]

Also, if Netflix doesn't come up with a solution, the UK will start uploading pirated movies. Why does the EU support piracy?

[San Bernardhinault]

It appears that May has forgotten that the EU, of course, has come up with a bunch of solutions that actually work: (1) Stay in the EU; (2) a Norway-type deal with free movement of labour and goods and capital, and regulatory alignment; (3) A border in the Irish Sea and a Canadian type agreement (4) Hard Brexit.