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    thanks I thought it was some Irish Politics reference I didn't know.

    well it kind of is. If that vote hadn't passed I'd have invested in t-shirts that said "Don't hurt me, I voted for repeal".

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      Anna Soubry who was on the march - at the front I believe- has voted in favour of every single Brexit motion put to parliament by her party. Dominic Grieve who apparently also joined it voted against his own amendment whilst the leader and former leader of the Liberal Democrats managed to miss the most important parliamentary vote of the last twenty years.

      The pressure has to go on the government, They have the power to stop Brexit. My problem with the people on the march- and I was one of them, remember- is that there's no understanding of political power. Parliamentary power comes from being ready to vote down the government. The Tory rebels aren't prepared to do that and the right of the Labour Party are ready to prevent a Corbyn government.
      So you need another strategy. What is it? The Tories called the referendum lost the referendum and their mismanagement and division is leading the country into disaster. Shouting at Corbyn (who is not the Prime Minster) is a distraction, and a very convenient one for May and co.

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        Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
        The leadership has no interest in their views because Tony Benn told them 40 years ago the EU was an American capitalist plot.
        Don't be stupid. Why do you think that leadership appointed Keir Starmer as Brexit minister?

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          Kicking Nick Clegg to death would have been a good start. It would have sent a message, and been a victimless crime.

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            Anna Soubry who was on the march - at the front I believe- has voted in favour of every single Brexit motion put to parliament by her party.
            She's voted with Labour several times on important amendments, including when the government lost.

            Don't be stupid. Why do you think that leadership appointed Keir Starmer as Brexit minister?
            Because he had to.

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              what should come after the march do you think? (apart from attacking Jeremy Corbyn?)

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                Whatever it is, I don't think it has any chance of succeeding without Labour shifting.

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                  Be specific. It's not enough to say that Labour should "shift" (to what exactly?) but that you don't have any idea what the strategy is.
                  Last edited by Nefertiti2; 20-10-2018, 18:11.

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                    It's got to be supporting the Single Market strongly now. From there, I don't know.

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                      Tubbs, if you don’t mind me asking, why didn’t you match today?

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                        I live in Neath, or rather a village a few miles away.

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                          I don’t want to sound like a dick but that’s only 4 hours for something you clearly feel so passionately about...

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                            Fair point.

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                              This is a start. Caroline Lucas understands politics.

                              https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/1053713995453079552

                              it was much easier for me to get there than Tubby, -just a brief Tube Journey for me. though some had come a very long way. I'd also want to pick up on something Reginald said- I don't have a problem that people from The Thick of It come along - or even the people who inspired The Thick of It - but that has to be the icing on the cake, not the be all and end all. Rock against Racism had big concerts with stars, but they had local concerts, leafletted every club, had a stall at every event.

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                                Think the Labour Party get it too

                                https://twitter.com/SteveNickSmith/status/1053728371463602176

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                                  It that has to be the icing on the cake, not the be all and end all. Rock against Racism had big concerts with stars, but they had local concerts, leafletted every club, had a stall at every event.
                                  I get that, and that's where Labour could fit in. There's already a base everywhere.

                                  I saw Corbyn this week was in Ashfield and a couple of other places, and I thought was good. But is that going anywhere? There was a shift a few months ago to abstaining on the Single Market, and it looked like there might be a shift to supporting it. It hasn't happened. Have they moved on properly from worrying about state aid?

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                                    Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                    Here's a plan.

                                    How about a load of people join a political party, with huge campaigning capacity? One led by a bloke who says "you lot are in charge in policy, not me". The people could, at every opportunity, make clear that they don't like Kipper-lite bollocks. By a happy coincidence this party could have 260 seats in Parliament. There could be a strong campaign for, at the very least, a Norway deal, say.
                                    If you take away the 260 seats bit, there actually is such a Party. Happily, it is absolutely and unabashedly committed to stopping Brexit. Unfortunately, its own Leader didn't actually bother to turn up to vote against it. And the leader before that was busy off telling people how much he hates the gays.

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                                      I would far rather there were a General Election than a People's Vote. I don't think a People's Vote is a guaranteed win. I think Brexit is very important but for most people its still just an idea, and its not such a compelling idea as (fantasy) ideas of freedom and Britishness.

                                      most people are more exercised by housing, wages, education etc. That's where Corbyn and Labour must put their attention. (and that's why the press are doing their best to lock Labour out of every debate but Brexit. Labour has very popular policies. The Tories have no policies at all. And maybe they will be able to win people round- through making the case step by step.

                                      If I were running media for the People's vote campaign I would stress that we heard from working class and BAME people who'd voted leave and now changed their mind on Brexit - than Tony Blair Alistair Campbell Anna Soubry, or another celebrity. We need people from Nissan in Sunderland or the TSSA speaking.

                                      we alos have to be ready to deal with the fascism that is about to be unleashed.

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                                        Why are Rees Mogg and the DUP going to put Corbyn in?

                                        I don't get this at all.

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                                          Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                          Why are Rees Mogg and the DUP going to put Corbyn in?

                                          I don't get this at all.
                                          Force them to back May, then.

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                                            Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                                            If you take away the 260 seats bit, there actually is such a Party. Happily, it is absolutely and unabashedly committed to stopping Brexit. Unfortunately, its own Leader didn't actually bother to turn up to vote against it. And the leader before that was busy off telling people how much he hates the gays.
                                            There's a reason I didn't choose that lot.

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                                              They will back May if the alternative is a general election. Rees Mogg money will come before "vassal state" and all the rest of it.

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                                                then there will be a deal. but their UKIp voting supporters will be feel betrayed and will be looking for somewhere else. Which will probably destroy the Tories, too I think.

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                                                  It might do. It would do for Corbyn's programme though.

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