Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs
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Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View PostI'm talking about voters, not MPs. The ones that seem now to be supporting Remain in big chunks of South Wales, and likely elsewhere.
There are more than 4 Labour MPs who are leavers anyhow.
IIRC, it was more than the Lib Dems. (Or SNP. One of them.) But easier to blame the Leave vote on the poor, thick racists of Burnley, Stoke and Darlington than examine the middle-class curtain twitching racism of Chipping Norton.
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It's remarkable how many people who loathe Corbyn and refute everything he stands for, and who refuse to be led by him, are desperate for him to provide some leadership.
(That's not aimed at Tubby, btw, nor anyone else on here, just the various frothing centrists I see elsewhere)
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- Mar 2008
- 20805
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Originally posted by Snake Plissken View PostNearly 70% of Labour voters voted Remain.
IIRC, it was more than the Lib Dems. (Or SNP. One of them.) But easier to blame the Leave vote on the poor, thick racists of Burnley, Stoke and Darlington than examine the middle-class curtain twitching racism of Chipping Norton
Here in the Black Country Remain got 35% in the Referendum, Labour + Lib Dem + Green 42% in last year's General Election. In this year's Dudley Council election, the Tories added another 15% of the poll while Labour stagnated (many of the UKIPpers that went Tory were recently ex-Labour)
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Apologies if posted already. Fintan O'Toole on form.
Brexit has always had a large dose of phoney populism – it is an elite project for extreme globalisation wrapped up as a popular revolt against globalisation. But it also has an equally large dose of phoney unionism – it is an English national rebellion wrapped in the union flag. Among its many contradictions, perhaps the one in which the gap between rhetoric and reality yawns most widely is this one.
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- Mar 2008
- 20805
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
That (NYT?) article referred some pages back was telling, at least its main point that supposedly informed English opinion is clueless about Ireland. More of that sort of thing would be good albeit without the lazy stereotyping, headless pigeons, Great Hunger mopery and exaggerated outrage about the sub-editor's lurid headline.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View PostIt's remarkable how many people who loathe Corbyn and refute everything he stands for, and who refuse to be led by him, are desperate for him to provide some leadership.
(That's not aimed at Tubby, btw, nor anyone else on here, just the various frothing centrists I see elsewhere)
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Originally posted by Snake Plissken View PostNearly 70% of Labour voters voted Remain.
IIRC, it was more than the Lib Dems. (Or SNP. One of them.) But easier to blame the Leave vote on the poor, thick racists of Burnley, Stoke and Darlington than examine the middle-class curtain twitching racism of Chipping Norton.
On a tangent, you got affluent Tory seats like Monmouthshire voting Remain. Part of that must be non Tories whose votes are normally wasted and can't be arsed. If these people show up regularly, lots of Tory seats could be in play.
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Originally posted by Snake Plissken View PostWas the leader of the most pro-Remain party there?
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From the O'Toole piece, a survey he looked at:
And when asked whether “the unravelling of the peace process in Northern Ireland” is a “price worth paying” for Brexit that allows them to “take back control”, fully 83% of leave voters and 73% of Conservative voters agree that it is. This is not, surely, mere mindless cruelty – it expresses a deep belief that Northern Ireland is not “us”, that what happens “over there” is not our responsibility.
Consider that, in 1998, citizens of the Republic of Ireland voted 94.4% in favour of amending the Irish constitution to remove the claim to the North. Because it was in the interest of peace.
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Banned
- Jun 2017
- 3026
- A long way from Utopia.
- India, Ireland & numerous, numerous ABscenarios...
- Far too many, currently...
Originally posted by anton pulisov View PostFrom the O'Toole piece, a survey he looked at:
Christ almighty. What is wrong with these people.
Consider that, in 1998, citizens of the Republic of Ireland voted 94.4% in favour of amending the Irish constitution to remove the claim to the North. Because it was in the interest of peace.
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Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View PostI think that for most people Brexit isn’t the most important issue. So Monmouth (say) won’t pivot . Not will Chipping Norton( which also voted narrowly for remain, incidentally)
Brexit, if the cliff edge is avoided, is a slow burner. I think it could lose them votes even when it's not directly in people's minds.
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The timing of the election is important. It might favour Labour if the election is not until, say, a year after the Leave date, to enable the consequences of Brexit to really sink in. However, realistically, how long can the Tories cling on? It could be like John Major in 1996-97, where clinging on just widens the margin of eventual defeat.
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I think it won't take more than a couple of weeks after Brexit for that to become clear. Right now, unless they can agree to the Backstop, you're going to get an ultra hard brexit next march. There's going to be an election shortly afterwards. Either that or no elections ever again.
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So Karen Bradley says UK will not renege on Backstop. Which is fascinating. How is one to reconcile this with all the other things that the UK govt says. Could it be that Karen Bradley doesn't understand what she is saying, or is she flagging up that the Govt are going to shaft the DUP?
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- Mar 2008
- 20805
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Quite likely both.
Bradley had a reputation in previous Govt jobs as 'Theresa's even more wooden mate'. Two mates of mine stood for Parliament against her and barely got a word. Aware of this reputation, when she arrived in BelAir there was a brief flurry of photo-ops, baby-kissing and the like. But she wouldn't do any interviews on Radio Useless*, comments since have shown why.
* Nor do SF or DUP to be fair. It's beneath the Brains Trust and you can't trust the juniors to avoid saying something gormless under pressure.
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Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View PostThe timing of the election is important. It might favour Labour if the election is not until, say, a year after the Leave date, to enable the consequences of Brexit to really sink in. However, realistically, how long can the Tories cling on? It could be like John Major in 1996-97, where clinging on just widens the margin of eventual defeat.
But she pissed that one up. Like you say, she might be stuck with going on like Major.
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Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View PostSo Karen Bradley says UK will not renege on Backstop. Which is fascinating. How is one to reconcile this with all the other things that the UK govt says. Could it be that Karen Bradley doesn't understand what she is saying, or is she flagging up that the Govt are going to shaft the DUP?
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Labour Leave are still in the bunker for Brexit. They've spotted the threat to peace in Northern Ireland. It's the Irish Prime Minister making a joke on Twitter (in response to a foul mouthed troll).
https://twitter.com/BrendanChilton/status/1054302962246397957
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