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    Corbyn demanding to know whether the UK parliament can unilaterally withdraw from the backstop. Sure sounds like a remainer...

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      Peter Bone signalling support for a no-confidence vote.

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        Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
        Corbyn demanding to know whether the UK parliament can unilaterally withdraw from the backstop. Sure sounds like a remainer...
        That man is so utterly stupid that I seriously doubt I will be able to ever vote Labour again as long as he is there...

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          Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
          Peter Bone signalling support for a no-confidence vote.
          In fairness, he's been nominally determinative about the EU since the Major era. The only news from Dublin is that the Withdrawal Agreement would be voted on in the Dáil, so if the opposition were to be unhappy with the NI elements, a GE would be triggered.

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            Originally posted by Janik View Post
            That is pretty well an admission that Langie is right and Labour have achieved nothing on this issue, isn't it?
            It's a recognition that, because they don't have a parliamentary majority, either way they went on Brexit would have still ended up where we are - but that the best (only? - unless anyone's got a better idea...) strategy to get that majority would be to hold the Tories to deliver what they promised (the six tests), and watch them implode under its own contradictions whenever the crunch came. It may not work, but it's looking a fair enough bet at the moment.

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              Originally posted by johnr View Post
              It's a recognition that, because they don't have a parliamentary majority, either way they went on Brexit would have still ended up where we are - but that the best (only? - unless anyone's got a better idea...) strategy to get that majority would be to hold the Tories to deliver what they promised (the six tests), and watch them implode under its own contradictions whenever the crunch came. It may not work, but it's looking a fair enough bet at the moment.
              The only question mark is whether voters would definitely choose no Brexit over no deal, of course.

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                Indeed.

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                  Via BBC liveblog:

                  Conservative Martin Vickers says that he is pleased to hear that the UK will be leaving the Common Fisheries Policy. He asks who will be able to fish in UK waters after the Brexit deal is signed.

                  Mrs May says it will be "the UK negotiating on the UK's behalf" on fishing rights.
                  Because that's worked out so well for the UK so far...

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                    Corbyn is bringing up the backstop in order to trigger the collapse of the government, simmer down FBPE Nation.

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                      Originally posted by MoonlightShadow View Post
                      That man is so utterly stupid that I seriously doubt I will be able to ever vote Labour again as long as he is there...
                      Christ above. What the fuck is wrong with him? How fucking stupid is he? It's not that hard. The Irish Govt wants a permanent Guarantee that there will be no hard border regardless of whatever bullshit the UK gets up to. Of course we're not going to allow the UK to be able to impose a hard border by engaging in Bullshit. There's no need for him to say this to split the tories, the Tories are queueing up to make this point and split themselves. He's supposed to be able to step in to offer a fucking Reality based alternative, and here we are still talking about the equivalent of Cake.

                      In a best case scenario, Brexit is the economic equivalent of throwing yourself in front of a train. All that this fucking around about the backstop will achieve is that we'll cut your throat on the platform, and put the corpse of your economy in a fucking gibbet. And by We I mean the EU, but mostly the Irish Govt. Things will get pretty fucking horrible in the short term, but the Irish govt is being backed into a corner where either we allow the UK to tear up the Good Friday agreement, or we cripple your economy and keep beating it until your govt sees sense, (at enormous cost to us. An enormous cost, that is still lower than allowing the UK to tear up the good friday agreement)

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                        May can resign as PM and we still don’t get an election. What grand strategy is this? Ireland and the EU also watch Commons debates.

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                          Jesus Christ. His strategy has been the same for fucking months, criticising the government for not getting the deal they promised they would get, and let the Tories kill each other. You may or may not think it's a good strategy but it'd be a relief not to have the same fucking argument each time the same fucking thing happens.

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                            I'm not feeling very well today.

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                              Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                              May can resign as PM and we still don’t get an election. What grand strategy is this? Ireland and the EU also watch Commons debates.
                              Yep.

                              And if they lose a confidence vote, they get 2 weeks to overturn it, under the Fixed Terms Parliament Act.

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                                Looks like the Brexiteers are taking the Grand Old Duke of York strategy in relation to resignations.

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                                  http://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1062709478913699840

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                                    Door-watching live:

                                    http://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1062715509588733953

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                                      Originally posted by MoonlightShadow View Post
                                      That man is so utterly stupid that I seriously doubt I will be able to ever vote Labour again as long as he is there...
                                      Well, he was obviously playing the Tories off against each other at PMQs, not advocating it himself, and - judging by the looks and sounds from the Tories - it worked. Why you think that that is utterly stupid is beyond me.

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                                        Ah sorry J, i did not spot it was a clever strategy, judging by his output, it's hard to tell at times........

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                                          Fair enough; some have been tweeting that quote out as if it was what he believed, rather than using it to tease May. It's a febrile atmosphere...

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                                            Fair enough; some have been tweeting that quote out as if it was what he believed, rather than using it to tease May. It's a febrile atmosphere...
                                            It was obviously point scoring against May, but it's equally not conducive to a good Brexit deal, let alone a Remain outcome.

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                                              Labour's policy has always been that, to get a good Brexit deal, it should be them negotiating it; failing that (given timing etc), they would back May if she passed the six tests (which are based on the original outline from the Tories) - but given that the current deal, by all accounts, is a very bad Brexit deal, they shouldn't be 'conducive to it', they should try and bring it/her down.

                                              Remain is a very different kettle of fish.

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                                                Speaking of which:

                                                http://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1062733284675936256

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                                                  There are some fears among those MPs that there is wording in the future partnership agreement text that prefigures a full independent negotiation of fishing rights
                                                  That's certainly my takeaway from the FT summary of the draft. And Bloomberg is running a headline about the EU using fishing rights as leverage for financial services access in the FTA.

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                                                    I know the opposition are trying to split the Tories with their complaints about a halfway house that's neither fish nor fowl - or whatever the weird metaphor of the day is.

                                                    But wasn't this the only possible outcome all along - how else can you have no border in Ireland and no border in the Irish Sea without Britain effectively remaining subject to EU regulations and keeping free movement and so on?

                                                    And, also, isn't this also the least terrible of all the possible outcomes if we do have to leave the EU?

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