I suspect he means liberal as in the opposite of social democratic. But it's a word that turns off many Brexiters and has appeal to many Remainers.
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Berba is on the money re the political centre of the EU being further on the left than in the UK. Labour, even nowadays, is a tame social democrat political entity at European level. Reading lexiters, you'd think they are revolutionary socialist party and the EU some kind of cyberpunk world corporate dictatorship...
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Hmm, reading the 'hard left' views on Brexit, they strike me largely as vague or disingenuous as Corbyn generally.
But few under retirement age seem to be vehemently anti-EU, bar a few Luddites.
As for the Brit Labour party being a 'tame social democratic party' domestically, compared to their European equivalents of a similar size, definitely nor.
Which could well feed into any new MEPs in due course.Last edited by Dav O'Roso; 15-01-2018, 23:48.
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Policies wise, there is nothing coming from Labour that is notably more radical than yer average social democratic party in Europe. A fair chunk of their flagship policies are in fact pretty mainstream. Sure, in contrast to the Tories, they are radical but thats because the Tories are moving so much to the right that they are now more at ease with nutters from Poland than their nominal euro counterparts....
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Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View PostPolicies wise, there is nothing coming from Labour that is notably more radical than yer average social democratic party in Europe. A fair chunk of their flagship policies are in fact pretty mainstream. Sure, in contrast to the Tories, they are radical but thats because the Tories are moving so much to the right that they are now more at ease with nutters from Poland than their nominal euro counterparts....
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Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View PostPolicies wise, there is nothing coming from Labour that is notably more radical than yer average social democratic party in Europe. A fair chunk of their flagship policies are in fact pretty mainstream. Sure, in contrast to the Tories, they are radical but thats because the Tories are moving so much to the right that they are now more at ease with nutters from Poland than their nominal euro counterparts....
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Reminder, Tubby. It was the Conservative Party and their coalition partner the Liberal Democrat’s who called for the referendum. It was the right of the Conservative Party who controlled the negotiations and the public discourse. Whilst the right of the Labour Party launched a coup against Corbyn the day after the referendum which more or less tied up Labour for the next three months. So angrily blaming the left for the mess we’re in is neither rational nor productive
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Originally posted by Lang Spoon View PostCos it will be suicidal to remove the triple lock until you have to. Even non pensioners get all misty eyed for the auld yins. It would go down about as well as say, putting VAT on children’s shoes.
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Keir Starmer has just reposted this on twitter
Starmer’s six tests for the Brexit deal are:
1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?
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3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
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So, we have to pander to the racists rather than argue from a position of principle, in order to get some scraps we might like? Hurrah for the glorious new regime that replaced the terrible Blairism that, er, yes... what was that?
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No-one's talking about pandering to racism. But there are plenty of ways of implementing freedom of movement with the restrictions used in other EU countries which might help win back to the European Union the people who voted against it.
Not everyone has the option to go and work in the US.
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I might be being unfair about this. But the thing that drives me nuts is that free movement of people should be an absolute bedrock principle of any reasonable left wing party in the modern era, and it's clear that the people who resist it are the racists and the dog-whistlers. So I want somebody to actually stand up on this and shout back that there is literally no reason to manage migration between the UK and France, between the UK and Sweden, between the UK and Poland, between the UK and Romania. Instead we get mealy mouthed bullshit in order the achieve some half-hearted but unspecified compromise agreement.
And we know that 48% were clearly and explicitly in favour of free movement. The odds are that enough of the remaining 52% who voted for Brexit didn't want the borders controlled. There was certainly no clear majority to shut down free movement, so why aren't Labour actually fighting this corner?
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