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    the die was cast in those 4 months though.the parameters were established.

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      We're not going to agree, but I think his leadership manifesto says a lot about what his limitations are, and those are more important than the leadership collection. He didn't understand the parameters properly himself.

      But credit to him for other achievements, especially on austerity.

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        I see nothing in what labour have done since that suggests that an uninterrupted period after the last referendum would have lead to any different approach. Labour fought the last election entirely on the premise of ignoring brexit and assuming it would be ok. The way that they are carrying on since suggests that they have no better understanding of the European Union, or how it functions or what is likely to happen next than they did during their rather unimpressive campaign.

        I'm profoundly unconvinced by the leadership of the labour party, I don't think that they understand what is happening at all. and since they don't understand what is going on, but even if they did, I would consider their ability to shape the debate on what happened next, marginal in the extreme. so I don't think that leadership challenge would have mattered. The other issue though is that while history is going hammer corbyn for his woolly brained inactivity and incurious stupidity, at this key period, history isn't even going to recall who the non-entities who launched that coup were.

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          Are you an EEA-er, a second referendum-er, or a call this shit off now-er, Berba?

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            Going back a bit on the Airbus tax figures, were they not meant to include CT, VAT etc. and not just PAYE/NICs? Anyway.

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              Good point.

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                Well, it is my job.

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                  I would be emigrating. You're all fucked. This is national suicide born of ignorance, stupidity and dishonesty. This is happening because you have a poisoned political class of mental and moral degenerates, and your country is having one of its periodic spasms of rejecting reason, thought and knowledge. Things are going to get an awful lot worse before they can get any better.
                  Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 23-06-2018, 19:34.

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                    Originally posted by sw2borshch View Post
                    Well, it is my job.
                    Tax accountant? I tried and failed to become one of those 20 years ago. Did a great conversion course though, which I passed after much anguish. Really worthwhile.

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                      Nah, I'm on the side of the angels. I'm a Diverted Profits Tax investigator.

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                        Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                        I would be emigrating. You're all fucked. This is national suicide born of ignorance, stupidity and dishonesty. This is happening because you have a poisoned political class of mental and moral degenerates, and your country is having one of its periodic spasms of rejecting reason, thought and knowledge. Things are going to get an awful lot worse before they can get any better.
                        I don't know where would have me.

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                          Originally posted by sw2borshch View Post
                          Nah, I'm on the side of the angels. I'm a Diverted Profits Tax investigator.
                          Ah, right. Side of the angels indeed. I did fairly low level compliance. Some of the clients we had used to have a "Can you get the comp agreed, weight off my mind and all that?" The culture of the department wasn't to pull fast ones. Though probably there were other parts of the firm less salubrious.

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                            I've done compliance work for about fifteen years, but this DPT thing for about fifteen months - I've gone from dealing with backstreet businesses and accountants to the henchmen of the masters of the universe. All I can say is it's no wonder they get away with so much, but a moral degenerate is a moral degenerate...

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                              Yeah, that's the impression I've got too.

                              I hope you get plenty of "job satisfaction", if you know what I mean.

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                                That use of “comp” would utterly befuddle Americans.

                                It always means “compensation” here and therefore sounds like you are negotiating a bribe.

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                                  Our clients were a varied bunch. The department was called "Entrepreneurial Services", but we were "Big 6", a nice combination. Had I been any good at the job, would have been really good grounding. I wasn't any good.

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                                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                    That use of “comp” would utterly befuddle Americans.

                                    It always means “compensation” here and therefore sounds like you are negotiating a bribe.
                                    We call that "compo".

                                    Not to be confused with Compo.



                                    Actually, the client probably wouldn't have said "comp". More like, "Can you sort the tax out?"

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                                      Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                      Are you an EEA-er, a second referendum-er, or a call this shit off now-er, Berba?
                                      He's Irish. He's able to point out the insanity of the situation without thinking about the strategy.

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                                        Tory MP for Yeovil speaks. (Raab is calling for the usual "just be tough" stuff).

                                        Marcus Fysh MP
                                        ‏Verified account
                                        @MarcusFysh
                                        Follow Follow @MarcusFysh
                                        Quite right @DominicRaab deal with the risks yes, and we can for instance in supply chains including aerospace, but not at the expense of the opportunities that come from being a completely independent country
                                        Yeovil, you say?

                                        https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/...rofumo-1368236

                                        Leonardo Helicopters boss Alessandro Profumo 'worried' about effect of Brexit on Yeovil site
                                        The company's Somerset site employs 3,000 people

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                                          Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                          He's Irish. He's able to point out the insanity of the situation without thinking about the strategy.
                                          Ha ha.

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                                            Ursus, don't youse get comp tickets or some such?

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                                              Marcus Fysh has a majority of 14,000 in Yeovil.

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                                                That's usually in the form of a verb ("being comped").

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                                                  @nickeardleybbc
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                                                  More
                                                  On the day Boris Johnson calls for a "Full British Brexit", this from Siemen's chief exec...

                                                  "I think the realities are setting in and I think it is time to get
                                                  away from slogans, 'full British Brexit', 'going into combat with Europe'. It's all incredibly unhelpful"


                                                  @nickeardleybbc
                                                  12h12 hours ago
                                                  More
                                                  Siemens boss: "What we need to do now is to get closer with our European partners and work out what a realistic, pragmatic Brexit is that works for both sides, the EU and ourselves."
                                                  Predictably the first response says Siemens needs to "respect the people's vote".

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                                    He's Irish. He's able to point out the insanity of the situation without thinking about the strategy.
                                                    I would have followed a different strategy at every single point. My problem with any strategy advanced by anybody in the UK is that it simply bears no resemblance to reality. I would at least have tried to ensure that right now I was in a position to hammer the tories relentlessly over Airbus, and repeatedly making the point that I told you so. This scenario was inevitable, but past ambivalence over the customs union means that Labour can't tear the tories apart on the prospect on a 100,000 manufacturing jobs going right down the shitter. Labour have done nothing to prepare for this. What grounds can they criticize May on? Starmer's bit about May's red lines is correct but inconsistent with the labour position.

                                                    If I were in corbyn's position, I would have campaigned on an anti austerity ticket, pointing out that the Uk's problems had nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with the Tories, and that historically the EU is the only thing in the world interested in regional development in the UK. And crucially if elected would drive an EU wide Move to tax companies, and end austerity. And when elected, use the EU to help smash the UK's network of tax havens. (I'd keep that bit secret though)
                                                    Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 23-06-2018, 22:17.

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