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    (To GY) Indeed. Which'll be catastrophic. And not Corbyn's fault.

    There's a school of thought that says it is the fault of lots of people who didn't 'get on board' by the time of the 2017 GE and spent their time online picking over whether he responded quick enough to some daily issue or other, rather than getting out and trying to do some actual campaigning. I wouldn't go that far - it's up to the Party to win members and votes, not expect them as 'the least worst option' - but it's fair to say that there are some who failed to see that Corbyn was the only chance of a softer Brexit. He still is.

    (To FB) Yep, definitely very difficult...but who knows where we'll be after a new government and a transition period. And looked at the other way, maybe they're designed not to be met, and for the bill to be voted against?...
    Last edited by johnr; 21-01-2018, 20:00.

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      That talk about nationalization indicates that there seems to be some effort to fight the battles of the eighties in eighties ways rather that considering the various different ways that you could take the east coast mainline back under public control under the EU.
      On this score, it doesn't help the discussion that nobody seems to know exactly what the EU will require on rail, so people's interpretation tends to be informed by their views on politics more generally. So somebody who doesn't mind a Hard Brexit will say "the EU's will force us to do what we don't want to with our trains". Somebody opposed to Hard Brexit will likely deny there's any issue. But it's such a marginal economic issue, in the greater scheme of things, that it's best if it's left out of the discussion altogether till we've got Brexit right.

      FWIW, I think the EU will require some competition on some lines. It could just be like Italy are doing and letting a couple of "open access" operators on some lines to keep Trenitalia honest. As you've said, we're so much further down the line already with this stuff, it's unlikely the EU are going to be forcing the structure Corbyn is scrapping back on us.

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        The latest in giving business certainty (paywall). No position paper for financial services.

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          This nasty piece of work has been making an arse of himself again.

          Paul Embery‏
          @PaulEmbery
          John McDonnell tells Andrew Marr that current EU free movement laws have "forced down wages". Is this blinding reality slowing becoming apparent to those on the Left who for years have rejected it out of hand? Not before time, if so.
          But McDonnell didn't say this, as far as I can tell.

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            Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
            On this score, it doesn't help the discussion that nobody seems to know exactly what the EU will require on rail, so people's interpretation tends to be informed by their views on politics more generally. So somebody who doesn't mind a Hard Brexit will say "the EU's will force us to do what we don't want to with our trains". Somebody opposed to Hard Brexit will likely deny there's any issue. But it's such a marginal economic issue, in the greater scheme of things, that it's best if it's left out of the discussion altogether till we've got Brexit right.

            FWIW, I think the EU will require some competition on some lines. It could just be like Italy are doing and letting a couple of "open access" operators on some lines to keep Trenitalia honest. As you've said, we're so much further down the line already with this stuff, it's unlikely the EU are going to be forcing the structure Corbyn is scrapping back on us.
            Well Privatizing natural monopolies is a tricky job, and it can be very easy to get it wrong. In this case it really didn't work. I don't know who owns the train track, but the EU would allow the UK buy that back in a heartbeat. They tried to get the private sector to run that trainline, and it simply didn't work, so I can't imagine that there were would be much in the way of meaningful resistance to them having it under state ownership. There are too many state owned railway companies in the European union for this to be too problematic.

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              The UK owns all track already.

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                And it’s the bit that always fucks up cost estimates/project timetables. Expect to be in my 50s before the Glasgow Queen St Tesco Metro lookalike terminal rebuild is completed.

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                  That's to say, we own it now, but we didn't for a short period when a private company called Railtrack existed. After a series of accidents, Railtrack put in a load of speed restrictions which made trains late, and that meant they owed compensation to the train companies and it went bankrupt so the state could buy it back cheap. It didn't really make much sense that Railtrack could raise money for investment in the railway cheaply enough.

                  So we've not got state-owned Network Rail in charge of the infrastructure, and private companies bidding to run franchises on it. Fares are a mixture of regulated and unregulated.

                  Interestingly, lots of the bidders for franchises now are subsidiaries of state-owned railways. They're not all making money either, which suggests to me they're looking to the UK to get experience ahead of the EU's next rail package coming in (2023). Although our system isn't too bad now, but I'm sure the EU will be more gradual than what we did. I'm sure Macron and Merkel like the way Britain's reduced the cost of fares to taxpayers, so might give the Commission the nod to force more competition on DB and SNCF, while keeping their distance from it.

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                    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                    And it’s the bit that always fucks up cost estimates/project timetables. Expect to be in my 50s before the Glasgow Queen St Tesco Metro lookalike terminal rebuild is completed.
                    It's the hardest bit, in fairness, but it's certainly had problems. I like the SNP idea of devolving it.

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                      I used to work for Railtrack. I was on humungous money for a reception/info booth job (although I earned it every time there was flooding in the West Country).

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                        Whatever it was, you earned it, front of house for Railtrack.

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                          Paul Mason

                          Verified account

                          @paulmasonnews
                          Jan 21
                          More
                          Replying to @BorisJohnson @CBItweets
                          Like I was saying - Labour is now the natural party of business. Tories would sacrifice the entire UK corporate sector for the sake of "disruptive, new" firms that don't exist. And ephemeral trade opportunities.
                          Labour's doing Hard Brexit too, as things stand.

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                            No, they're not.

                            But seeing as we're never going to agree on this, probably best to wait and see how it pans out.

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                              No freedom of movement, we're out on our arse.

                              In other news, I've had my first proper look at Matt Goodwin on Twitter. I've never seen an academic like him. Entirely one sided, criticizing "Remainers", as if only partisans could have any doubt about the current Brexit trajectory. Bigging up first poll for 6 months to say Brexit was right.

                              It's all a bit of rough for him, isn't it? He backed up Paul Embery v actual expert Jonathan Portes.

                              He's diverged onto American politics today. The Democrats, who've won all over the place, need to "get back in the game" apparently because they can't say what they'd do. DACA sounds like doing something.

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                                Michael Gove 'slams clock-watching civil servants who are thwarting plans for domestic reform by knocking off as soon as they have done their hours
                                Or won't do unpaid overtime. Which is the same attitude to Brexit as lots of the public.

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                                  Some detailed thoughts from Paul Mason

                                  I've got a few issues with Mason's stance on FOM, and proposing a three-pronged referendum question seems fraught with problems, but there's some stuff to work on there.

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                                    Nobody could have foreseen this.

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                                      Originally posted by E10 Rifle View Post
                                      Some detailed thoughts from Paul Mason

                                      I've got a few issues with Mason's stance on FOM, and proposing a three-pronged referendum question seems fraught with problems, but there's some stuff to work on there.
                                      You'd have to have a run off between the top two choices, surely.

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                                        My usual frustration. Hilarious Boris calls for £5bn extra for the NHS.

                                        Labour doesn't say Tory Hard Brexit has made that much harder to find, and will do every year this farce carries on.
                                        Last edited by Tubby Isaacs; 23-01-2018, 13:22.

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                                          Did Macron piss on the #FBPEer's chips when he said 'you leave the EU, you leave the single market', as some are claiming?

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                                            No idea.

                                            But the minute Corbyn gets asked about the European Economic Area, he'll have to give a better answer.

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                                              Have we had this?

                                              https://www.theguardian.com/business...on-at-halewood

                                              In a statement, JLR said it was planning production cuts at the Halewood plant, in Liverpool, which builds three Range Rover models and employs around 6,000 people. JLR said the cuts would take place in the second quarter of 2018.

                                              “Ongoing uncertainty surrounding Brexit is being felt by customers at home and in Europe,” the company said on Monday.
                                              Plus other factors that they mention, but even so.

                                              Open goal for somebody here.

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                                                    You chaps have missed out on the 'Brexit boom' news that Nestle is moving his chocolate research dept from Switzerland to York. 24 jobs!!

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