The Brexit Thread

[Tubby Isaacs]

Grieve wrote the last paragraph of the compromise motion. He's doing all the hard work with saying stuff Dacre and Kippers don't like, so he'd have probably followed through if he had the votes. Government defeat is still on for later, with no deal looming larger.

Labour whipped pretty well last time to scare the government. I hope they're working on Ronnie Campbell.

[Tubby Isaacs]

And yet the attack from the “centre “ will remain relentlessly targeted at Corbyn whilst the spineless Grieve & Morgan back the far right extremists in their own party.

"The centre" voted for Corbyn last time, so it's not surprising they're holding him accountable rather than Nicky Morgan or Jacob Rees Mogg who the centre didn't vote for.

Some of Corbyn's most high profile supporters, like Bastaani, Mason and Jones are just as bad as the "centrists". Not that I agree with a "People's vote", but I don't think people who do support it are Tory astroturfers frustrated at not invading enough places.

How about Corbyn meaningfully ask members what they think? Would seem like an easy way of shutting up a lot of people just having a pop at Corbyn, no? If Parliament's going to have a role, shouldn't the leader of the Labour Party make sure he actually represents Labour members/voters properly? Or was that talk cynical, and he's going to take my tactical anti-Tory vote as endorsing his state aid nonsense?

[johnr]

How about Corbyn meaningfully ask members what they think? Would seem like an easy way of shutting up a lot of people just having a pop at Corbyn, no? If Parliament's going to have a role, shouldn't the leader of the Labour Party make sure he actually represents Labour members/voters properly? Or was that talk cynical, and he's going to take my tactical anti-Tory vote as endorsing his state aid nonsense?

Well, yer mate Owen Smith asked the members about it, and got a resounding answer.

Given your vote was tactical anti-Tory, who would you rather have voted for?

What a lot of 'centrists' seem to forget is that May specifically went to the country to get a strong mandate for a hard Brexit. Corbyn stopped that in its tracks, but you'd hardly know it from their frothing. They've been tilting at the wrong windmill for a year or so now, and when it doesn't play out as expected they get all confused...https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/st...38124152369153

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Majority of 16 for the Government, so a couple have held out / abstained.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Government defeats 'Grieve 2' amendment 319 votes to 303

Some more rebels, FWIW?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well, yer mate Owen Smith asked the members about it, and got a resounding answer.

Given your vote was tactical anti-Tory, who would you rather have voted for?

What a lot of 'centrists' seem to forget is that May specifically went to the country to get a strong mandate for a hard Brexit. Corbyn stopped that in its tracks, but you'd hardly know it from their frothing. They've been tilting at the wrong windmill for a year or so now, and when it doesn't play out as expected they get all confused...https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/st...38124152369153

I'd have voted Lib Dem or Plaid Cymru. But I'd have voted for one of the 3 Labour MPs in the next door borough (including Owen Smith) who've been rebelling on Brexit. I'd have happily voted for my old MP Rushanara Ali too.

Corbyn didn't say anything about a vote for him as leader being an endorsement of all his policies. Sure, most of what he says is closer than any other leader's been to membership views, and that's positive. But Brexit is a much bigger issue than nationalizing train services or whatever.

[Etienne]

Tory Rebels:
Heidi Allen
Ken Clarke
Philip Lee
Antoinette Sandbach
Anna Soubry
Sarah Wollaston

Labour votes with the govt.
Frank Field
Kate Hoey
John Mann
Graham Stringer

[Tubby Isaacs]

Good whipping by Labour, looks like they've indeed had a word with Mr Ronnie Campbell. Just Stringer, Hoey, Field and Mann rebelled, who are likely beyond reason. Fair play to the genuine left Lexiters in not swallowing this "thwarting democracy" rubbish.

6 Tory rebels. Looks suspiciously like they're taking it in turns so that the government doesn't lose. Even so, surprising that Greening and S Hammond aren't rebelling, with their London Remainer seats.

[johnr]

I'd have voted Lib Dem or Plaid Cymru. But I'd have voted for one of the 3 Labour MPs in the next door borough (including Owen Smith) who've been rebelling on Brexit. I'd have happily voted for my old MP Rushanara Ali too.

Corbyn didn't say anything about a vote for him as leader being an endorsement of all his policies. Sure, most of what he says is closer than any other leader's been to membership views, and that's positive. But Brexit is a much bigger issue than nationalizing train services or whatever.

One of Smith's (the only?) pitch was that Corbyn had let everybody down on Brexit, and that he would rectify it. And he got the Bum's Rush. Anyway, old news, sorry I brought it up.

How anyone can vote for the LibDems after their years of austerity support completely, utterly baffles me, but that's probably old news too.

[Tubby Isaacs]

No, they're entirely fair questions.

Smith, as I recall was for a people's vote then. That was the wrong policy, but he's for the EEA which is right.

I see leaving the EEA as a permanent downgrade, so in that way worse than austerity. In 2017, I could be fairly sure the Lib Dems wouldn't go into coalition with the Tories again, which might not be true next time.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Faisal Islam
Verified account
@faisalislam
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I just interviewed John Mann on our PMQs panel and he feared that the only use of an amendment such as this would be to delay Article 50 in January after No Deal

Have I understood this correctly? He doesn't want this amendment because it might be used to give us time to avoid crashing out with No Deal?

He either thinks No Deal means carry on like now, or he's doing a bit of Libertarian style "creative apocalypse".

[johnr]

The Tory whip, Bernard Weatherill, offered himself to make the pair with Broughton, believing it to be a matter of honour after discussing with his Labour counterpart whether pairing applied to matters of confidence. The Labour whip was so impressed that he released Weatherhill from having to do so, since it would have been career suicide.

I hope you both don't mind, I've used that story on Twitter.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Frank Field - one of a small group Labour MPs to campaign for Leave in the EU referendum - has tabled a bill in the Commons calling for the Lords to be scrapped and replaced by a smaller "senate" with limited powers to delay or amend legislation.

What does he think the Lords has done here?

[Ginger Yellow]

I just interviewed John Mann on our PMQs panel and he feared that the only use of an amendment such as this would be to delay Article 50 in January after No Deal

That seems like a very sensible use indeed. Is the alternative that we can't delay article 50 in a no deal scenario?

[Tubby Isaacs]

More from Labour's populist straight-talking genius.

Caroline Flint
@CarolineFlintMP
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Abstained on Dominic Grieve’s amendment & he has voted against his own amendment. Amendment fell. Now can we hear the majority of sensible voices across the House who accept we’re leaving the EU and want a deal be heard above hardline Leavers & Remainers

What is this? The old Liberal Party playbook?

[Snake Plissken]

Even so, surprising that Greening and S Hammond aren't rebelling, with their London Remainer seats.

This aged well. Twice.

https://twitter.com/OFOCBrexit/status/1006544304301658114

[Tubby Isaacs]

See also.

Stephen Hammond MP
@S_Hammond
Today the Government have in effect finally agreed that Parliament will have a meaningful vote in the event of no deal. They have confirmed this could be an amendable motion, with no further constraints on Parliament, giving Parliament a real say on the our country's future

[Etienne]

I think Larry Elliott may now be deliberately trolling Berbaslug, judging by today's column.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Is this meaningful vote bollocks there to enable parliament to send their ministers back with their tail between their legs if they come back with no deal? Because I don't see the point of it otherwise. I heard a couple of people mention on the News that the reason for not voting for this was to allow Theresa May have a credible threat of No deal.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's right.

Plus the idea is that Parliament gets to shape the negotiating priorities that the government's sent back in with. That might not happen.

[Ginger Yellow]

I had hoped by now that everyone realised no deal is not a credible threat, especially since we haven't secured the transition agreement. Or rather, it's credible, but not a threat. Unless threatening to shoot yourself in the groin is a threat.

[Nefertiti2]

David Davis and Ian Duncan Smith seem quite capable of threats of that nature. I can imagine Jacob Rees- Mogg egging others on to shoot themselves in the groin especially if he could turn it his own financial advantage.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Who is aaron Bastani, and what is wrong with him?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Also, yes, that Larry Elliot article is amazing. The thing is that I agree with an awful lot of it. The only fucking problem with it is that progressive politics is going to fucking die in the brexit aftermath.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Bastani is one of the new media Corbyn ultra types. He sees Tories in lots of places.