Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Brexit Thread

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    they're not just like taxes on booze and fags. booze and fags are life choices for the individual.

    Comment


      And carbon emissions are way more damaging. So, yes, they're not identical.

      The comparison is that they're both regressive, yet still entirely sensible.

      Comment


        except as pointed out before they hurt the poor far more than the rich unless they are part of something like the Green New Deal

        the riots are proof that the policy is not working as it should. Driving the just about managing or the poor into penury is not "entirely sensible".

        Comment


          https://twitter.com/freddie1999/status/1071436380801261568

          Comment


            ECJ rules

            https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1072044966950694912

            Comment


              Increasingly i am finding myself feeling totally torn by this whole thing. I think leaving the EU is a fucking disaster for Britain. But i think letting the UK back in is likely to be really fucking problematic for the EU. Having this bunch of snippy fucked-up annoying cunts* constantly yapping at everyone is such a pain in the arse and in so many ways getting shot of them once and for all is likely to be a genuine benefit for the EU

              (*Not meaning all of people of the UK here bu the loud vocal twats who seem to be its representatives. Your Farages and your Johnsons. Your Daily Mails and your Tory parties)

              Comment


                People who criticize a carbon tax because of its distributional impact need to be very careful that they're simply not falling into the Tea-party/ Irish water charges trap, of ostensibly being concerned with the impact on the poor, but ultimately are part of an anti-tax small govt narrative, that shits on everyone. Anyone who is more focused on the immediate impact of the tax, rather than saying that this is an important and good idea, but we need to talk about it as part of the ultimate distribution of income, should be viewed with extreme suspicion. Criticizing a fundamental re-pricing of carbon to include the cost of pollution, for its distributional impact is a bit like criticizing Chemotherapy for being sexist.

                (And when I talk about a discussion of the distribution of income and wealth, I mean a serious and meaningful discussion, not the sort of nonsense espoused in the 42 demands, which is essentially a Cake fucking a unicorn, while Boris Johnson looks on enviously at the scope of the nonsense contained within.) But this simply can't take place on a national basis. Everyone needs to do this, or the french economy will die because it tried to do the right thing.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                  Increasingly i am finding myself feeling totally torn by this whole thing. I think leaving the EU is a fucking disaster for Britain. But i think letting the UK back in is likely to be really fucking problematic for the EU. Having this bunch of snippy fucked-up annoying cunts* constantly yapping at everyone is such a pain in the arse and in so many ways getting shot of them once and for all is likely to be a genuine benefit for the EU

                  (*Not meaning all of people of the UK here bu the loud vocal twats who seem to be its representatives. Your Farages and your Johnsons. Your Daily Mails and your Tory parties)
                  Many pages ago, I mentioned that I hosted an EU discussion in our Labour ward, and that the best argument we had from a left Leaver was exactly that. He spends most of his time in France/Germany, and feels that the EU project was too important to have the UK constantly arguing and sniping from the periphery. I found it hard to argue with him.

                  Comment


                    Just because some people are concern trolling doesn't mean the argument is fraudulent; it means policy makers need to come up with better ways to ensure that the necessary repricing of carbon doesn't become another regressive taxation so as to leave the poujadists and anti-taxers pissing in the wind without rhetorical cover.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by johnr View Post
                      Many pages ago, I mentioned that I hosted an EU discussion in our Labour ward, and that the best argument we had from a left Leaver was exactly that. He spends most of his time in France/Germany, and feels that the EU project was too important to have the UK constantly arguing and sniping from the periphery. I found it hard to argue with him.
                      Yes, Minister made a joke of this very sort of thing 30 years ago.

                      Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?
                      Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?
                      Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing [the EEC] up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch... The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.
                      Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal?
                      Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, minister.
                      Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?
                      Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                        Living in Wales has actually confirmed my thinking. I can see for myself that poorer people have smaller cars, take buses etc. The Welsh Government deserve credit for maintaining a decent level of bus service, even with cuts to their grant, and there's no reason why France (which taxes about 12p in every pound more than the UK) can't afford to fund that.
                        have you actually taken a bus in Wales ever?

                        Comment


                          Yes, but not often. I can read timetables though, and there are a reasonable number of buses towards the bigger towns till about 6.

                          Maintaining buses even at this level was a brave political choice. See the "Offa's Dyke is the line between life and death" bollocks they put up with.

                          Comment


                            Berba puts it better than me, comme toujours. The "Irish water trap". That's it exactly.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                              Yes, but not often. I can read timetables though, and there are a reasonable number of buses towards the bigger towns till about 6.

                              Maintaining buses even at this level was a brave political choice. See the "Offa's Dyke is the line between life and death" bollocks they put up with.
                              I'm sure maintaining bin collections as frequently as once a month was a brave political choice too because Welsh people don't actually deserve the same standard of public services every other country in the global north enjoys.

                              Comment


                                5 live saying that according to Kuensberg, May is pulling the vote tomorrow.

                                Comment


                                  https://twitter.com/_ThomasLewis/status/1070611721843343360

                                  Comment


                                    What a pack of climate-change-denying poujadism, Nef.

                                    Comment


                                      I have regularly used buses in Snowdonia, Snowdon Sherpa and the likes. The timetable is well planned, synchronised with train service from Llandunno Junction, the pricing is excellent and the service is good, even when you consider the area potential weather problems. It is far better than the service in a similar area like the Lakes District in fact.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Logan Mountstuart View Post
                                        5 live saying that according to Kuensberg, May is pulling the vote tomorrow.
                                        Euro back above 90p as a consequence.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Logan Mountstuart View Post
                                          5 live saying that according to Kuensberg, May is pulling the vote tomorrow.
                                          Bloomberg had it, single sourced, as well.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                                            Euro back above 90p as a consequence.
                                            Excellent. Just in time for my Christmas visit back home.

                                            And proof that Kuensberg is the centre of the universe (according to her).

                                            What a snake May is. What a joke of a government and country.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View Post
                                              I have regularly used buses in Snowdonia, Snowdon Sherpa and the likes. The timetable is well planned, synchronised with train service from Llandunno Junction, the pricing is excellent and the service is good, even when you consider the area potential weather problems. It is far better than the service in a similar area like the Lakes District in fact.
                                              I was going to add to this debate earlier by saying "try getting round Cumbria by public transport" - outside of the main towns and away from the West Coast main line up the east of the county it's a mess.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Logan Mountstuart View Post
                                                What a snake May is. What a joke of a government and country.
                                                May continuing to cling to power is bordering on fraud. A five day, forty hour parliamentary debate on a motion that now isn't going to happen is a farce. It'll be portrayed as 'national interest' but it's purely Conservative Party management interest.

                                                Comment


                                                  it's time to take to the streets.

                                                  Comment


                                                    I don't see how this is going to work. There might have been some negotiating after a no vote, but why would the EU negotiate now, especially when there's no guarantee she can get anything through. If she postpones and the EU continue saying no renegotiation she'll just look idiotic.

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X