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WSL, Women's FA Cup, WPL & lower leagues 2017-18

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    #51
    Licences granted so far:

    All clubs have been offered a licence for the tier at which they applied. For some clubs, this offer of a licence is conditional on the club ensuring that certain requirements are met before the grant of the licence is confirmed. Decisions are subject to appeal.


    Super League:

    Arsenal
    Birmingham City
    Brighton & Hove Albion
    Bristol City
    Chelsea
    Everton
    Liverpool
    Manchester City
    Reading
    Yeovil Town

    Championship:
    Aston Villa
    Doncaster Rovers Belles
    Durham
    London Bees
    Millwall Lionesses
    Sheffield FC
    Tottenham Hotspur

    The licence application process now moves to an open application phase where applications from clubs outside of The FA WSL will be accepted for both Tier 1 and Tier 2.

    A minimum of two licences are available through the open process in Tier 1 and a minimum of five licences (including - subject to the rules and regulations in respect of promotion - a place for The FA WPL champion club) are available in Tier 2.

    Clubs who wish to submit an application as part of the open application phase must do so by 9th March 2018. Applications will be assessed by an expert panel and The FA Women’s Board. Decisions will not be communicated until after The FA WPL Championship Play-Off at the end of The FA WPL season.

    Read more at http://sheffield.fawsl.com/news/fa_a...1G36lHBhCHt.99

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      #52
      Man Utd apply for a licence in the Women's Championship.

      http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Fe...source=twitter

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        #53
        They'll be a decent feeder club for City.

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          #54
          My understanding was that they are already a feeder club, in the sense that they have youth teams, but then the girls have to find new clubs when they mature.

          Anyway it will be interesting to see how this develops. I can't see them being happy to make up the numbers in the second division and so will this mean them buying up talent from elsewhere?

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            #55
            Chelsea 1-0 Man City in the semi final, live on the BBC now.

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              #56
              I'm looking forward to attending the FA Cup Final slightly less than if Everton had got through but can't grouse too much at Ł7.50 a ticket.

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                #57
                Arsenal are a better team though, and have more of a chance of stopping Chelsea.

                It still feels weird to see Heather O'Reilly playing in England. Weirder, even, the Carli Lloyd last year which was clearly only a short break from her main career.

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                  #58
                  Originally posted by Janik View Post
                  Arsenal are a better team though, and have more of a chance of stopping Chelsea.
                  Good point, this is no time for sentimentality.

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                    #59
                    Worlds slowest reply, but why would Everton be more romantic than Arsenal? There are few if any more admirable clubs involved in the Women's game than Arsenal. I would only put Donny Belles on a par with them, and the Belles are a rather different beast. Arsenal's commitment to their Woman's team is deep and constant to a level no other Men's professional club can match. David Dein was key in setting them up, and when he did so he made it clear this wasn't a frippery to be discarded but a permanent, fundamental and integrated part of the Football Club.

                    Back in the 90s and 2000s Arsenal were employing players in various capacities so that whilst technically semi-pro their lives could revolve around Football (Kelly Smith being a prime example). The end result of being properly long-term invested in the sport like this was winning bag loads of trophies, of course. However it's not Arsenal's fault that other clubs were not taking Women's Football as seriously they were and so were not competitive with them.

                    It's true that Everton have also been in for a good long while and stand as one of the better of the rest. However their side was absorbed into Everton rather than founded by them, and possibly as a consequence of that the link has always felt a little more superficial and arm's length than the one Arsenal Women have with their respective Men's club. Everton have never got to play at Goodison Park to my knowledge, whereas Arsenal have hosted games at the Emirates. Arsenal Women have shared training facilities with the Men for years, I'm not clear whether that is true of Everton.

                    As I say, I'm not trying to disparage Everton here. If we consider running a Women's team a social responsibility for Men's clubs and award marks for how serious and committed clubs are to doing so, Everton would be very near the top of that table. But Arsenal, whilst not perfect, would be top. People with an animus against their Men's side may have to say this through gritted teeth, but they show other clubs up on this, some marginally, others by a vast amount.

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                      #60
                      Over 45000 at Wembley for the FA Cup Final today. Fantastic crowd.

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                        #61
                        I was there. great crowd; vastly more diverse by all metrics than any men's game and it's great to see the kids there with their favourite players' names on their kits. Midway through the first half there was some prolonged Mexican waving, which isn't my thing. We didn't need to make our own entertainment at that point. Chelsea always had the better of it and produced the score to match as the game went on.

                        Sorry for not replying to your post on Everton and Arsenal's respective merits before, Janik. You are right; there's a temptation is to carry across prejudices and grudges from the men's game, rather than judging the women's teams on their own merits and I fell into that trap. I'd make a slight case for Everton as a more romantic finalist because of Arsenal's domination of the competition historically, but that shouldn't equate to a value judgement on the clubs as a whole.

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                          #62
                          In a very dispiriting throwback to the '80s, a hate group are boasting about handing out their literature at the final.

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                            #63
                            Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                            Nasty people. I expect they keep at it because any pause would risk a moment of insight into how gnarled and ugly their hatred has made them.

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                              #64
                              Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                              Horrible. I've written to Football v Homophobia, Kick It Out and Women In Football asking them to raise this with the FA, and to publicly challenge attempts to push transphobia on football fans. Worth others doing the same.

                              Katie Chapman won her tenth FA Cup (spaced by 21 years). That would be pretty amazing even without considering she had three seasons out due to pregnancy and one due to playing in the US.

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                                #65
                                The FA have condemned the transphobic literature.

                                https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/0...obic-leaflets/

                                The FA condemns the messaging within these leaflets as it is at odds with our ethos around trans inclusion.

                                We have a policy in place which allows people who self-identify, and who meet our criteria, to play in affiliated football – this was a first for a football governing body and something we are proud of.

                                Gender identity should not be a barrier to participation in football and we shall continue to work with the relevant stakeholders around the stadium to ensure similar messaging is reported through the relevant channels if and when it appears.
                                Kinda weird that ossified world of football administration is better on challenging this stuff than the """radical""" left...
                                Last edited by Bizarre Löw Triangle; 09-05-2018, 10:25.

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                                  #66
                                  The most pointless title ever - aka Women's Super League 2 - could possibly be wrapped up tonight if Doncaster Rovers Belles win away at Sheffield and Brighton somehow fail to beat bottom club Watford.

                                  Whatever happens Brighton go up and Doncaster don't so you know, don't suppose it really means owt.

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                                    #67
                                    https://twitter.com/ChelseaLFC/statu...967822336?s=19
                                    https://twitter.com/ChelseaLFC/status/996478778967822336?s=19

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                                      #68
                                      One more decisive game to go this season, as the winners of the WPL North and WPL South meet on Sunday to determine the overall Tier 3 champions.


                                      Usually the winner is promoted to Tier 2 but with the new system coming into play I don't know whether or not that holds this time.

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                                        #69
                                        Charlton (who won 2-1) are indeed included in the new WSL 2, whilst Blackburn are not. Though whether yesterday's result had any bearing on that decision is very much open to doubt; sporting considerations seem entirely secondary to financial ones in determining which clubs are playing at which level.

                                        Other's joining the already announced 10 in Tier 1 and 7 in Tier 2 are:

                                        Super League
                                        West Ham

                                        Championship
                                        Charlton
                                        Leicester City (presumably the Leicester City that works with the Men's club and not the one that doesn't)
                                        Lewes
                                        Manchester United
                                        Sheffield United


                                        Notably, no spot in either of the top two Divisions for Sunderland, who have just finished 7th out of 10 in WSL 1.

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                                          #70
                                          I assume the, erm, generous licensing decisions (West Ham have been allowed to jump up two divisions, right?) are at least partly to do with getting clubs into the top two flights who have (or seem to have) the financial backing to guarantee the fully pro/semi pro standards expected from next season in the Super League and Championship, right? I can sort of see a justification for that if they want to get standards up quickly, but it is a shame it can't be done organically, and that it seems so much at the service of the national team as the be all and end all.

                                          Having said that, I'm delighted Man United are bringing the women's team back. What do people reckon the likelihood is of free streaming for games in those top two divisions? Because the thought of being able to maybe watch a Manchester United team not managed by Jose Mourinho next season is making me quite happy.

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                                            #71
                                            It's just a nonsense isn't it really - West Ham, finishing in the bottom half of the regionalised third tier get thrown into the top flight for the first time, because they can squeeze some finance out of the men's team. Manchester United, who've shown active distain for the women's game for over a decade, are rewarded by being able to form a new team courtesy of a very coincidental loophole that allows junior women's clubs to apply for the top two tiers, and go straight in at tier two.

                                            I look at this and I just think what is the point? The FA's run before they can walk approach towards a professional top tier is encouraging teams to seek a funding model (piggybacking on big men's clubs) that has proved to be the riskiest way for women's teams to operate, having already killed off or almost killed off half a dozen sides.

                                            I follow a team that have worked so hard for far longer than the FA to champion the women's game in an area that'd rarely had much to shout about on a sporting level, and now all they can hope for - given the increasing disparity between first and second tiers as a result of this new model means an FA Cup run is highly unlikely - is that they might hold onto enough of the top players long enough to maybe win a division that will bring them absolutely no rewards.

                                            I found solace in watching the women's game when I got frustrated with the nonsense that surrounds the men's game... within five years its just become an even bigger mess.

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                                              #72
                                              Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                              I assume the, erm, generous licensing decisions (West Ham have been allowed to jump up two divisions, right?) are at least partly to do with getting clubs into the top two flights who have (or seem to have) the financial backing to guarantee the fully pro/semi pro standards expected from next season in the Super League and Championship, right? I can sort of see a justification for that if they want to get standards up quickly, but it is a shame it can't be done organically, and that it seems so much at the service of the national team as the be all and end all.
                                              West Ham and Sheffield United have jumped two Divisions. Manchester United have jumped an infinite number as UP makes clear.

                                              West Ham's application succeeded at least in part because it was for a fully professional club to play in the top flight. There were up to 4 extra spots available in that, West Ham were the only team to apply and they were accepted.
                                              Meanwhile the Semi-Pro second tier was oversubscribed. Sunderland, Watford, Oxford, Derby and at least one other who wanted to play at that level and could have funded a team have been told there is no space, as the seven original sides had submitted their budgets based on a maximum of 22 league fixtures. That this was the level clubs felt they could enter without putting themselves at financial risk again suggests that Semi-Pro is the really sustainable model of Women's Football currently.

                                              I fear that UP is right, and ten years from now a significant number of the 11 Super League 2018-19 sides won't exist. Yeovil, in particular, are clearly stretching themselves to go fully pro and maintain a league position their play has earned. Everything you hear from that club makes it sound like a gamble, but one you can understand them wanting to try everything to make as otherwise it simply puts a glass celling on their ambition.* Sunderland have found that repeatedly, and Donny Rovers of course.

                                              * - how often are we going to see promotions from the Championship to Super League refused, I wonder? If being fully pro and funded for that is a pre-requisite then many of the Championship clubs won't be in a position to do it even if they finish in a promotion spot. It's going to descend rapidly into being a full-franchised competition (again).


                                              In the end, the FA's only possible justification for all of this is if it succeeds. If, at the end of it, we have a stable, established, self-sustaining, fully pro Women's Football league in England then that is something worth sacrificing a lot for. That is a long, long way off yet, though.
                                              Last edited by Janik; 29-05-2018, 11:16.

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                                                #73
                                                On a side note, Lewes are committed to paying their female players the same as their male ones.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Lewes is certainly the best thing about this announcement. They're the south coast club that has worked hardest to attract supporters to their games (Chichester are borrowing from their strategy), and their outreach programme sounds impressive. It's a little odd that Brighton and Lewes will both be represented in the top tiers, while there are no teams from the Solent area; but in a way i'm glad Southampton weren't awarded a spot they'd have done little to deserve.

                                                  i agree with all of you about the messages the FA is sending out to current supporters of women's football. It seems as though the FA's preferred model will combine the worst elements of the franchising-style system of US sports (little or no promotion and relegation; relocation of franchises at a whim, eg, Lincoln-Notts) with the worst of men's club football (domination by the same few wealthy teams; dependence on the patronage of more or less trustworthy owners). If the FA was intent on restricting the number of licences, i'd have preferred a league with a draft and a salary cap, where the successful teams might supplant each other according to something other than spending. But clearly the FA believes the source of future income to be tv money, and that the way to get bums on couches is by Chelsea or a Manchester team progressing in the champions league. Depressingly it might be right.

                                                  Originally posted by Uroš Predić View Post
                                                  I found solace in watching the women's game when I got frustrated with the nonsense that surrounds the men's game... within five years its just become an even bigger mess.
                                                  Yes, this applies to me also. When i began watching Pompey a few seasons ago, a number of (their very best) players had been with the team throughout their whole career, including several who'd played in the girls' and youth teams. Now there's a much more short-term and merry-go-round phenomenon whereby good young players are poached immediately by WSL teams, and their places taken by slightly older players who have failed to make the grade at WSL teams. The result is a weakening of the bond between supporters and players, and a sense that both are less invested in the club than before.

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