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In awe of a narky Scottish God

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    And he broke a 75 year run of no British men being in the top four of his sport*, or of winning any of the four tournaments that matter, whereas the cyclists had no such historical weight of failure to carry.

    Another factor in his favour is that I don't think another British man will win a Grand Slam in my lifetime, whereas the same is not true of the top achievements in cycling.

    *World No. 1 too, obviously, but he only held that status for a blip compared to his three greater contemporaries. Over the range of the past decade, he is clearly #4 and his career achievements will never catch up the other three.

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      Originally posted by Evariste Euler Gauss View Post
      With all due respect to players of snooker and other geographically niche sports, I think Murray's having become, say, around the 15th greatest male tennis player in history (if that's in the right ballpark, historical ranking-wise) must, given the relative extent of worldwide competition, be roughly equivalent to becoming something around the 2nd best snooker player in history, whoever that might be.
      The geographical spread of Tennis might be larger, but it is definitely demographically niche. It isn't particularly different from Equestrianism in being the World's middle classes at play. Would the 15th best ever show jumper get the same sort of bigging up? The clear GOAT of dressage doesn't...

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        Janik, I take your point about the relatively limited social catchment of tennis, but isn't it an order of magnitude less socially narrow than equestrianism? If tennis is the middle classes at play, surely that kind of horsey stuff is the world's upper and upper-middle classes at play.

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          Dressage is super-niche, even for equestrianism.

          My feeling is that almost everyone in Europe and the US has played tennis, and almost everyone has fairly easy access to courts. It's not as prevalent as football or basketball, but it's a pretty common game for people to play as kids. It's much more common for the middle classes to play it, but it's nothing like as demographically niche as equestrianism. In terms of solo (rather than team) sports, and apart from the running parts of athletics, I'd imagine that tennis may be the most commonly played sport globally. I can't think what else would come close. Golf is way more demographically (and geographically) niche. Possibly road cycling? Track cycling is almost impossible to do. Pub games like snooker and darts and pool and billiards are generally pretty regional. Table tennis and badminton - given their popularity in very high population countries - might be?

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            If by ‘played’ tennis you include with sponge balls and plastic racquets in the road across imaginary nets, trying not to hammer a real tennis ball in someone’s small back garden, for two or three whole weeks of the year (the exciting Wimbledon Weeks), then yeah almost everyone in Scotland has played tennis. Precious few on a court though.

            My high school gave us a few goes of tennis maybe for two semesters over two of four years of group sports (not just letting us off with fucking table tennis to tick a box at 16+ last two years) PE. And this was on the fucked asphalt surrounded by chain link courts of my local park. When my sister was up in Big School a decade later, tennis was off the books cos the courts were so warped and fucked. I doubt park maintenance has improved with the Great Recession and all. So I doubt most people in my bit of Scotland have played Proper Tennis before, and if so as much as they had done long jumping or high jump. Though almost everyone growing up will have had a go of pitch and putt, and most of the boys and a good amount of girls will have played golf (though that is very much a Scottish/Irish to an extent peculiarity).

            Which makes Murray’s winning anything even more incredible. Though I guess Mother Murray had the means and the pull especially to get him to Spain, before the LTA youth program fucked him like they poleaxed Jamie.
            Last edited by Lang Spoon; 24-10-2017, 21:11.

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              For the men, Kyle Edmund took advantage of a weakish late season field to reach his first ever World Tour Semi-Final, where he lost in 3 tight sets to Lucas Pouille.

              Cam Norrie and Liam Broady have both been in fine form on the US Challenger Tour, with Norrie winning a title, and Broady reaching a final (beating Norrie en route). Both are in this week's 75k and could well do with some more points with the Australian Open looming. Norrie is on the verge of a main draw place, Broady needs to confirm a qualifier place. There are a handful of others in qualifiers, with Alex Ward, Neil Pauffley and Julian Cash all winning in round 1 so far.

              For the women, Laura Robson having schlepped over to China for a 60k got the misfortune of meeting Sara Errani in round 1 back from her drugs ban. Errani won comfortably. Robson did reach the doubles final, and is threatening the top 100 in doubles, perhaps her poor movement being less of an issue with only half a court to cover.

              In Portugal, the 25k sees an all British final as Katie Boulter meets Katie Swann. Swann has been showing some improved form in recent weeks and knocked out decent opponents in Galfi and Kalinskaya, though both opponents had injury issues. Boulter is in even better form, having reached the final last week and is now in her fourth final of the season.

              A home 15k is always an opportunity for some Britons to get some points and the biggest beneficiary was Sam Murray who won her second ever tournament, beating fellow Brit Eden Silva in the final. There will be a similar line-up in Sunderland this week, before a 25k in Shrewsbury the next week when the opposition is likely to be rather tougher.
              Last edited by Etienne; 29-10-2017, 07:29.

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                Hingis played her last match today and retires as year end doubles #1.

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                  Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                  For the men, Kyle Edmund took advantage of a weakish late season field to reach his first ever World Tour Semi-Final, where he lost in 3 tight sets to Lucas Pouille.
                  Third ever. He also reached, and lost in, semis twice in the US this summer (Atlanta and Winston-Salem). Three semi defeats from three is starting to become a 'thing'.

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                    Sorry, first ever ATP 500 tournament.

                    I'm not sure losing in semi's has become a thing for Edmund, but beating top players has, his record against top 30 players includes lots of sets won, and lots of close matches, but practically no wins.

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                      Katie Swann beat Katie Boulter 5-0 Ret, meaning that her semi and final were both won on retirements and her quarter-final opponent also played through an injury. That is pretty lucky, but the points and the prize money are the same. Good thing to Boulter is that it's the end of the season, though I guess it rules out a late run for Australian Open qualifying.

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                        Not a lot going on in the women'sat tour level, Anna Smith playing for the most money in the Elite Trophy which was quite prestigious for singles, with most of the players who just missed out on the Tour Finals playing, but was a much more random selection for doubles. No ranking points on offer (good thing as she didn't win a set) but some nice cash.

                        Tara Moore continues her indifferent form with a first round loss in a 60k.

                        Much better results down at futures level, with two champions. Maia Lumsden beat Freya Christie in an all British final in Sunderland (in fact all 4 semi-finalists were British, so some useful points) and the astonishing Fran Jones won her first ever senior tournament in Paraguay. Also in South America, Emily Appleton reached a final, but lost in straight sets.

                        For the men, Kyle Edmund got a bit of luck as he was initially drawn against Pouille, who had just beaten him before a withdrawal saw Pouille seeded and Donskoy placed as the new opponent for Edmund, who duly won. He should have won his next match against Jack Sock, leading 4-0 in the third, but eventually lost in a tie break. Nothing much else of note with none of the players in the American challengers swing doing anything remarkable. L Broady did the best, before losing to Kozlov again.

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                          A real long shot this one but I need some help. I've got a student who's just joined the school who is his current year group champion in Romania. He's looking for a club in London but I'm wondering if there's some academy system or something similar that he could join. Any ideas?

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                            How old is he?

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                              I assume he (and his family) don't have lots of money?

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                                PM sent rather than posting details.
                                Last edited by Antepli Ejderha; 10-11-2017, 08:52.

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                                  RIP Jana Novotna, at only 49.

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                                    Awful. RIP indeed.

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                                      Just stumbled across this news on the BBC website after blithely following the Tony Pulis story from another thread. Shocking, and heartbreaking. Her 1993 defeat at Wimbledon and its aftermath, and valedictory triumph five years later, are one of the great tennis stories and will always live on in the memory. RIP Jana.

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                                        Struggling for words about this one. I had no idea it was coming. I guess her not appearing as an summariser recently was a quiet clue that something had changed, but nothing as terrible as this.

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                                          Aljaž Bedene decides to switch back to Slovenia in order to play Davis Cup and the 2020 Olympics.

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                                            Not sure how I feel about Bedene. It wasn't a "flag of convenience" case AFAIK but you can see why the authorities would not want to set a precedent by making an exception for him.

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                                              In loosely related news, Kyle Edmund is now legally resident in the Bahamas.

                                              It's quite heartwarming that both our number one male and female players remain UK residents for tax purposes (most tournament earnings are taxed by the country where the tournament is, but there must surely be substantial savings in endorsements etc by being based abroad).

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                                                If one is going to support people based purely because of the country in which they were born or live, surely one should make an exception for anyone who tries to avoid paying the taxes for that country?

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                                                  I think it definitely makes me less interested in their results. The Edmund situation does seem a little more complicated than simply a tax dodge, but I'm sure the tax plays a part.

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                                                    Did Virginia Wade pay full tax back in the day, when the top rate was much higher than now?

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