Shame about that carbon fee thing in Washington State.
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Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View PostI'm much less stressed by this outcome than I was last night. I think at some point yesterday, I had decided it was going to be a spectacular year for Democrats despite evidence suggesting otherwise.
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostI disagree on the comparison to “Europeans” (though any comparison that broad is DOA).
Just look at attitudes towards organised religion, guns and climate change.
One also should never discount the degree to which people here who are financially comfortable believe that state to be conclusive evidence of their wisdom, rather than the product of luck and favorable macro trends). The plague that is the “prosperity gospel” only encourages them in this.
Americans are less likely to trust government or large democratic institutions because our constitution was designed to make sure that those things are never actually very efficient, so people assume they never can be, so they don't vote to fund them and down the spiral goes. Meanwhile big capital just consolidates its power and bombards us with advertising telling us how they have what we need to be "ok." Whereas in a parliamentary system, at least occasionally, big things can get done. And big capital has less opportunity to step in and take it all.
My point was just that there are still an awful lot of Europeans* primarily interested in conserving what they believe to be "theirs" just as there are here. They just have a slightly different conception of who the "us" are in the us-vs-them calculus and a very different idea of who is going to protect us from them.
I don't know if those kind of abstract attitudes have ever been polled and compared.
* Obviously not everyone. There are obviously lots of leftist Europeans who are happy to share what they have with others just because they're decent compassionate people and aren't at all racist or xenophobic. But that's true in the US too. The problem is that our messed-up minority rule system makes it easier for a small number of well-organized assholes to produce a government that doesn't reflect the popular will.
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Ah, yes.
People across the world are inherently protective of what they perceive to be theirs. It is a rather intrinsic part of human nature. At the same time, I would argue that their notions as to boundaries of what is theirs, and, even more broadly, when what they have is enough, can differ dramatically. There are very powerful cultural forces desperately trying to convince Americans that they don’t have enough which are less powerful and unchallenged in other places in which I’ve lived.
I’m also not sure that people are as intrinsically distrustful of “Government” as you say. There are legions of white people here who are perfectly fine with the military, law enforcement and the criminal justice system to operate unchecked while being enthusiastic participants in mindless civic rituals “celebrating their service”. It’s why they call 911 on black people being black.
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Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
I also sometimes think that the CBC goes out of its way to find the most unhinged Americans they can, because the smug sense of Canadian superiority is a big seller. It goes both ways. Fox et al can always dig up a Canadian economist who thinks free healthcare is a bad idea or find a town that doesn't have enough doctors and pass that off as typical.
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I'm detecting an incipient feeling that Trumpism is about to become normalised, or more so than it already is, in the coming months. Partly it's the plastic olive branches thrown out by La Grand Orange and Pelosi, but mainly it's that emotional exhaustion has begun to set it. I mean how long can anyone stay genuinely enraged without being hospitalised? (I don't include Trump's professional anger.) Sooner or later most people come to terms with the status-quo, obscene as it is in this case. Whatever Mueller throws up — assuming we get to find out — probably won't be any worse than speculation has already assumed, so it'll likely be treated as a damp squib by all but the pundits and lawyers. Fuck.
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View PostI'm detecting an incipient feeling that Trumpism is about to become normalised, or more so than it already is, in the coming months. Partly it's the plastic olive branches thrown out by La Grand Orange and Pelosi, but mainly it's that emotional exhaustion has begun to set it. I mean how long can anyone stay genuinely enraged without being hospitalised? (I don't include Trump's professional anger.) Sooner or later most people come to terms with the status-quo, obscene as it is in this case. Whatever Mueller throws up — assuming we get to find out — probably won't be any worse than speculation has already assumed, so it'll likely be treated as a damp squib by all but the pundits and lawyers. Fuck.Last edited by Diable Rouge; 07-11-2018, 22:12.
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https://twitter.com/PeterBeinart/status/1060147820123090945
it's still about un-normalising something that's been considered normal for far too long. Racism is normal. It was the cornerstone of the USA.
these are the people who might change it. though.
https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1060268747787767808
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As with 2016, it feels like everyone is over-interpreting results to suit their own agendas. I think it's a fool's game, which is shown by 2018 proving that the 2016 theorists are all wrong.
I've heard that 2018 is proof the centrists can no longer win in the age of Trump, because Donnely, Heitkamp, McGrath, etc.
I've heard that 2018 is proof the idiosyncratic centrists who don't stick to the party line can win in the age of Trump, even in really Trumpy places - look at Manchin and Tester and Conor Lamb, etc...
I've heard that 2018 is proof the more openly progressive candidates are not the turnout panacaea that can open up red states - see defeats of Beto, Abrams, Gillum
And that 2018 is proof the more openly progressive candidates are the turnout panacaea that can open up red states - see Beto, Abrams, Gillum being competitive in red states
Etc... etc...
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Perhaps if Gillum didn't pivot from "Medicare for all!" in the primary to "affordable healthcare for all!" in the general and then brought in Hillary to give his campaign the kiss of death. But that's my bias talking.
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it's still about un-normalising something that's been considered normal for far too long. Racism is normal. It was the cornerstone of the USA.
That's absolutely true of course, but Trumpism isn't just about racism, or reflexive sexism. He's employed overt hatred, lies, insults and synthetic anger over almost everything and everybody, to make his "base" feel validated. I was down in Point Roberts to check-out the coffee shop scuttlebutt this morning. I heard less outrage and astonishment than I did, even a few months ago. Then it was, "I'm ashamed this man is our President!" now it's more, "Yeah, he's an asshole, and insults people, but things are basically OK, and maybe he does know what he's doing after all." I know it's just just one cup of coffee in one Washington State coffee shop but I left feeling an air of tired resignation. It's really depressing.Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 07-11-2018, 23:08.
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Nah, don't let white women off the hook. 50/48 is far too close. Feel like even just a nudge in the percentage of white women towards Democrats could have made a big difference in a lot of races.
And the thing the age breakdown really nails home is that people need to cool it with that bashing millennials shit. Go after the old people that have no concern about keeping a party that wants to destroy the earth in power just because they got theirs and won't be around to face the consequences of their actions.Last edited by Incandenza; 07-11-2018, 23:48.
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About the fourth set down here. (not great, but the best I can find)
Lower-income voters remain a core part of the Democratic Party’s base, but this year, the second largest shift left came from voters who make $50,000 to $100,000 annually. The wealthiest voters continue to vote Republican.
2018 results in tabular form here.Last edited by ursus arctos; 08-11-2018, 00:28.
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Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View PostThese two sets of (exit poll) stats are incredible. It's basically just old white men who're holding back progress. Every other demographic is basically unified and progressive.
- 90% white
- 65% Male
- Average age 68 years
I'm sure it is all just a coincidence.
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Originally posted by Incandenza View PostNah, don't let white women off the hook. 50/48 is far too close. Feel like even just a nudge in the percentage of white women towards Democrats could have made a big difference in a lot of races.
the most radical of racialist Nation-of-Islam type nutters isn't actually extreme enough in their pronouncements.
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People vote according to their white privileges, although that doesn't totally explain the white liberal bloc in California or the East Coast, who perhaps have more black and Latino friends, or work in the social/welfare/public teaching sector, so are able to express some empathy.
A sizeable number of white women maybe fears the unknown stranger that Trump's racism depicts, even though they don't live within a 100 mile radius of many Mexicans or Muslims. Fear is not rational.
Is there some way to extend adolescence to age 40 so that the whites aged 18-29 who voted Democrat keep doing so?
Would an economic downturn turn whites more anti-Trump or even more liable to blame the brown-skinned minority?
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