Originally posted by ursus arctos
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Yes. That's the idiotic counter position taken by way too many people in the Democratic establishment. Neither Sanders nor Trump seem willing to accept that the Russians tried to help them. Many in the Democratic establishment seem willing to accept that Trump would probably have won anyway, because their campaign was inept.
Indeed, even Nate Silver - who has generally been pushing the line that the bots and trolls shifted very little - seems to be hung up on the correlation of the Clinton Email Leak story (which is almost certainly Russian action) and a change in the polling. I really think that the email leak thing is massively overplayed. Apart from the Fox News crazies, I don't think I knew anyone who really cared about it, and I can't see it as being the thing that shifted 300,000 voters in the midwest.
Nobody seems willing to say that the Russians tried to interfere, but didn't change the result.
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Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View PostYes. That's the idiotic counter position taken by way too many people in the Democratic establishment. Neither Sanders nor Trump seem willing to accept that the Russians tried to help them. Many in the Democratic establishment seem willing to accept that Trump would probably have won anyway, because their campaign was inept.
Indeed, even Nate Silver - who has generally been pushing the line that the bots and trolls shifted very little - seems to be hung up on the correlation of the Clinton Email Leak story (which is almost certainly Russian action) and a change in the polling. I really think that the email leak thing is massively overplayed. Apart from the Fox News crazies, I don't think I knew anyone who really cared about it, and I can't see it as being the thing that shifted 300,000 voters in the midwest.
Nobody seems willing to say that the Russians tried to interfere, but didn't change the result.
Originally posted by ursus arctos View PostFlynnie, I don't think I ignored that strain of idiocy at all, and in any event completely agree with you.
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Originally posted by Flynnie View PostI think you're ignoring that there's a significant portion of the Democratic establishment hellbent on using "the Russians" as an excuse to handwave away any of Saint Hillary's responsibility. It's impossible to have a sensible conversation with a group of people who think Hillary would have walked an election if it wasn't for those pesky Facebook ads.
The stink seems pretty restrained, compared to what it would be if it were Republicans in this situation. Same as the aftermath of 2000 really.
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I don't think I knew anyone who really cared about it, and I can't see it as being the thing that shifted 300,000 voters in the midwest.
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The Republican's approach of burying Clinton in Spurious scandals and imaginary investigations that went no where wasn't just to convince Republicans that she was satan, it was also to sap people's enthusiasm to vote for her as well. What Comey did gave that approach a massive boost in the final straight. It was definitely a factor.
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Like everyone else in DC, he was sure that she would win, and didn’t want to spend four years being Benghazied by the likes of Devin Nunez.
Flynnie, I take your point, but tend to think that Bernie is going to get that from the HRC deadenders no matter what he does. Were I him, I would have tried harder to give some credit to the investigation.
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Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View PostAre they really saying this? Are they sticking up for eg lack of campaigning in the rustbelt by HRC, for example?
The stink seems pretty restrained, compared to what it would be if it were Republicans in this situation. Same as the aftermath of 2000 really.
It’s aided, in my opinion, by a significant portion of the centrist wing of the Dems fighting a rearguard action against the insurgent Berniecrats. They’re still livid about 2016 in all its permutations and, for the first time in my life, seem to have figured out that to get their way they need to control the party’s apparatuses. Which means they’re showing up to ward meetings and county committee meetings.
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Originally posted by Flynnie View PostOh yeah, there is absolutely a Hillary dead ender faction that will not admit she or Robby Mook did anything wrong.
It’s aided, in my opinion, by a significant portion of the centrist wing of the Dems fighting a rearguard action against the insurgent Berniecrats. They’re still livid about 2016 in all its permutations and, for the first time in my life, seem to have figured out that to get their way they need to control the party’s apparatuses. Which means they’re showing up to ward meetings and county committee meetings.
I've certainly sensed the hyper-defensiveness on policy. But that they did everything tactically right? Crikey. The 1992 General Election here was pretty shattering, but by the Sunday, Hattersley was on TV saying we did X,Y and Z wrong, in good faith as far as I could tell.
Wouldn't they be better from their point of view conceding that they made tactical mistakes?
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
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Presidential son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner has had his security clearance downgraded — a move that will prevent him from viewing many of the sensitive documents to which he once had unfettered access.
Kushner is not alone. All White House aides working on the highest-level interim clearances — at the Top Secret/SCI-level — were informed in a memo sent Friday that their clearances would be downgraded to the Secret level, according to three people with knowledge of the situation
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He's having a tough week, and it is only Tuesday.
Officials in at least four countries have privately discussed ways they can manipulate Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, by taking advantage of his complex business arrangements, financial difficulties and lack of foreign policy experience, according to current and former U.S. officials familiar with intelligence reports on the matter.
Among those nations discussing ways to influence Kushner to their advantage were the United Arab Emirates, China, Israel and Mexico, the current and former officials said.
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The Kushner thing is just utterly jaw-dropping. It's almost impossible to understand just how compromised not only Kushner, but also Trump being the father in law of Kushner, and the Whitehouse having to cover for Kushner, have been. Who the fuck knows where leverage has been used - it could have literally been used on any staffer in the Whitehouse, threatening to bring down Kushner.
How the hell isn't this the biggest national security scandal since Julius and Ethel Rosenberg?
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Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View PostFrank's big thing seems to be trade. But it's not clear to me that he knows anything about it. In that piece linked to from my piece, he says "all the arguments over trade that we’ve had in this country since the early 1990s, all the sweet words from our economists about the scientifically proven benevolence of free trade". Economists have a variety of views, and it's like he's proud of not reading any of them. One section on him seeing Trump talk about trade is laughable.
Yes, Donald Trump talked about trade. In fact, to judge by how much time he spent talking about it, trade may be his single biggest concern – not white supremacy. Not even his plan to build a wall along the Mexican border, the issue that first won him political fame. He did it again during the debate on 3 March: asked about his political excommunication by Mitt Romney, he chose to pivot and talk about … trade.
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