Having gone back and read your (johnr) original posts and the replies, I think it's interesting that you and I, who would both be in the same boat in the sense that we don't follow US politics as closely as others on here, find that the article broadly confirms our instinctive impression of what is actually happening with regard to Russian electoral interference.
In spite of what the article claims (and as stated I do think it's a very good article) I do believe there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. Why wouldn't they interfere? It serves the interests of Putin and Russia's ruling class to have a geopolitically weakened America, its head of state and government consumed by chaos. The thing is that there has probably been Russian "interference" of one kind or another in American elections for a considerable time. Thanks to the advent of the Internet and modern telecommunications technologies there is perhaps greater potential to subversively influence another country's democratic process than ever before (short of assassinating its leader or invading or any other tricks from the Offical CIA Handbook) so it's not insignificant that Russian intelligence sought to influence the vote. But why has the prospect of foreign influence in an American election only become such a huge issue, such a contentious issue, now? American institutions have been hacked before, mostly by Chinese intelligence, why is this particular hack so vexing? It's largely because of Trump. He's rightly despised by anyone who didn't vote for him and if there's a chance that the charge, if proven, can bring down his administration then it becomes an object of fixation.
ursus notes that the conspiracy theory is far from being orthodoxy or something that's utterly consuming the Democrats and their discourse. That's probably true, I don't follow American politics closely enough to say otherwise and Christ knows this story isn't the only important thing happening in America at the minute. But you could be forgiven for coming to that conclusion (that it's an obsession among liberals and status quo Democrats) if you went by what America's late-night satirists talk about*. It seems that so many of them, and the demographic they represent, don't want a radical reformation of American politics. They want their Democrats back. The same casually destructive, neoliberal orthodoxy that has inflicted massive damage on huge swathes of the world. And there is an opportunity in the wake of their defeat in 2016 to reassess the state of their party, to reconfigure just what radical politics means in Trump's America. But that opportunity is being squandered. I'm not saying that the Russian investigation is solely to blame for that but it provides an excuse for the Democrats not to engage in any self-examination.
Apologies for dredging all this up again after a few pages. Just one thing that Berba mentioned:
Trump is far too unpredictable to be considered a puppet. For that accusation to hold, he would have to be capable of receiving covert instructions from Putin or his government and adhering to them without anyone realising what's going on. If there's one thing that's become apparent it's that secrecy ain't his thing. I know there's the allegation of kompromat but I honestly don't believe that Trump is bothered too much by anything incriminating coming to light. He's already on record as a sex predator ("Grab 'em by the pussy") and he still won the fucking election. What else is out there that could trouble him?
*On that note, is there a hole deep enough to fit John Oliver, Trevor Noah, Stephen Colbert and their ilk? My God, their shows are dreadful - unfunny, infantile, smug, jokes you can see coming from a mile off, the inescapable sense of the converted being loudly preached to.
In spite of what the article claims (and as stated I do think it's a very good article) I do believe there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. Why wouldn't they interfere? It serves the interests of Putin and Russia's ruling class to have a geopolitically weakened America, its head of state and government consumed by chaos. The thing is that there has probably been Russian "interference" of one kind or another in American elections for a considerable time. Thanks to the advent of the Internet and modern telecommunications technologies there is perhaps greater potential to subversively influence another country's democratic process than ever before (short of assassinating its leader or invading or any other tricks from the Offical CIA Handbook) so it's not insignificant that Russian intelligence sought to influence the vote. But why has the prospect of foreign influence in an American election only become such a huge issue, such a contentious issue, now? American institutions have been hacked before, mostly by Chinese intelligence, why is this particular hack so vexing? It's largely because of Trump. He's rightly despised by anyone who didn't vote for him and if there's a chance that the charge, if proven, can bring down his administration then it becomes an object of fixation.
ursus notes that the conspiracy theory is far from being orthodoxy or something that's utterly consuming the Democrats and their discourse. That's probably true, I don't follow American politics closely enough to say otherwise and Christ knows this story isn't the only important thing happening in America at the minute. But you could be forgiven for coming to that conclusion (that it's an obsession among liberals and status quo Democrats) if you went by what America's late-night satirists talk about*. It seems that so many of them, and the demographic they represent, don't want a radical reformation of American politics. They want their Democrats back. The same casually destructive, neoliberal orthodoxy that has inflicted massive damage on huge swathes of the world. And there is an opportunity in the wake of their defeat in 2016 to reassess the state of their party, to reconfigure just what radical politics means in Trump's America. But that opportunity is being squandered. I'm not saying that the Russian investigation is solely to blame for that but it provides an excuse for the Democrats not to engage in any self-examination.
Apologies for dredging all this up again after a few pages. Just one thing that Berba mentioned:
Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!
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*On that note, is there a hole deep enough to fit John Oliver, Trevor Noah, Stephen Colbert and their ilk? My God, their shows are dreadful - unfunny, infantile, smug, jokes you can see coming from a mile off, the inescapable sense of the converted being loudly preached to.
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