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    USA Today, hardly a bastion of left-wing lunacy, has had enough of Trump. "A president who'd all but call a senator a whore is unfit to clean toilets in Obama's presidential library or to shine George W. Bush's shoes," USA Today writes in an editorial. And the really lays into him.

    Comment


      Full-on racism and misogyny this week, even more nakedly as time goes on. The base laps it up obviously but there must be some feelings of shame somewhere in GOP land. Senators have to look their kids in the eye, assuming they raised them with some decent values.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
        The USA is unique in this respect because Trump clearly can damage the quality of life for Americans abroad, who get tarred with the "racist" brush and may be subjected to various forms of passive aggression by Europeans
        How real is this though? Are that many Americans likely to experience such reactions from Europeans purely because of their nationality? (isn't this blown out of all proportion?)

        It seems to be me that if such feelings exist in America, and they probably still do I’m not disputing that, it’s more a figment of the imagination of the US media/online news outlets, or the result of a frenzy of supposedly anti-US sentiment (from ordinary Europeans) that’s been whipped up by the media for decades, than something that’s unequivocally grounded in reality.

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure most people who have spent many years abroad have met people (rude and ignorant twats, that is) who may have been off-hand/rude with them, or disparaged/insulted them etc. for something they thought was strongly related to their nationality. It’s happened to me a few times as a French citizen in my 30-odd years outside of France, incl. hols and stays abroad (not the most popular people in the world the French, so I would dispute the opening gambit in the bit I quoted, "The USA is unique in this respect"), but I suspect these incidents have generally far more to do with the mental health/mood/etc. of the "aggressor" than the nationality of the target person. In my experience this kind of antagonism towards Americans, that is feelings of animus purely attributable to their US nationality, is very rare in Europe/Western Europe.

        I’m asking this (How real is this though? Are that many Americans likely to experience such reactions from Europeans purely because of their nationality?) because I remember very well the same sort of apprehension/fear felt by a number of Americans in the 1980s-1990s in relation to a future/potential stay or holiday in ("socialist") France (which then had a reputation for being very anti-American) or elsewhere in Europe, many had all sorts of strange beliefs and preconceptions about it and I did my best to disabuse them of these notions -born out of ignorance - before they could see for themselves that whatever they'd heard back home was untrue/ridiculous exaggerated (I remember quite a few Americans wanting to pass themselves off as Canadians when travelling in France or elsewhere on the continent.) But I can assure you that there was very little substance to it, if any. My referential years are dated but I doubt it has changed that much.

        In the 1980s, every year for 4-5 years running, I was heavily involved with a large group of American students (about 40 a year) in my French university and continued to be peripherally involved for an extra 2 years after I’d left uni, via the France-US programme that had been set up there. I was a student (in English) just like them and these US students would come to me, or other "helpers" if they had a problem or wanted some guidance (admin stuff, bank, going out etc), at least initially, until they got their bearings (I liaised with the American professor at uni whose remit it was to oversee the France-US exchange programme but he was busy and much older than us students so he relied on a few anglophile students like me to welcome the US students, to help them, get them acclimatised to French life, show them around, get them out etc. Some stayed with French families so didn’t really need us but many US students lived in flats or halls of residence so they were happy to have us around. Some of these students were only 19-20, had never left their home state/region – never mind the US – didn’t speak much French, felt homesick and were nervous at first as they'd been thrown in at the deep end in an environment that was alien to them).

        Anyway, at no point at all in my 6-7 years with these Americans did any of them complain of anti-US stuff from French people specifically related to their American nationality (I was also involved in the France-UK prog too and same thing: no Brit ever mentioned to me any anti-British unpleasantness they’d seen or been the victim of, on the contrary I think many had been pleasantly surprised, with French families keeping in touch and inviting them back to France long after they’d left France etc.). I would certainly have known about any anti-US shit had it happened as I lived with these Americans, I flatshared with them, travelled with them, interrailed/Eurailed with them etc. we did everything together basically, ditto with the Brits. Same when the US students travelled within Europe, and they all did at some point during their stay (usually Easter or June), no problems whatsoever.

        The parents/relatives of these Americans would also visit them and I would occasionally them, invite them home etc. they'd tell me extensively about their French experience. Never heard of any problems on that front either. There was the odd incident (very rare and always minor) but it had nothing to do with their US nationality; some of these Americans had unfortunately stumbled upon some French or Spanish or German fuckwit, probably drunk or high on something, who would most likely have reacted in the same stupid or hostile way had these people been from anywhere else on the planet, including from other parts of their own country.
        Last edited by Pérou Flaquettes; 16-12-2017, 10:56.

        Comment


          Re what I've just written about France having a reputation for being very anti-American in the 1980s, I feel I should have qualified that comment a little, so I'll quickly add that the anti-US sentiment in France in a certain section of the French population (I suppose it is relatively deep-seated as it has historical roots going back several centuries –French involvement on American soil between 17th and 19th century and via the presence of the old English enemy there, also the late US involvement in WWI, a lateness that created some resentment– but really emerged after WWII, reaching its peak in the 1950s and 1960s-70s, particularly during the Cold War years & the Vietnam War) is, or rather was, mostly a product of the left-wing intelligentsia, especially the Communists (but many Gaullists too), it stemmed from politics and then branched out into various areas & niches, but I never felt in my whole life that it was at all directed at Americans (as individuals), in France anyhow.

          For instance, I had a number of communist friends/acquaintances throughout my university years and afterwards (a rarely spotted breed now but ubiquitous in the 1970s-80s, I absolutely hate communism but there you are, everybody knew plenty of communists in France in those days -they were relatives, neighbours, football team-mates, colleagues etc.- and some became friends), they were rabidly anti US, you name it, they had some serious beef against it even if they knew sweet FA about it – US imperialism/hegemony, US capitalism - "neoliberalism" in new money- American navel-gazing, US involvement in Latin America, the US individualistic society model, US violence, US puritanism resulting in a US-specific form of hypocrisy/double standard which itself begets decadence – eg plenty of restrictions but anything goes in terms of alcohol consumption, pornography etc– and lots more reasons) BUT they would never have been taken their dislike out on the Americans they met on campus or elsewhere, maybe out of politeness, maybe out of curiosity too, many of these "anti US" French people were eager to know more about America, there was a real fascination towards the US (which partly explains the cult of Johnny Hallyday in France that many non Francophones cannot comprehend, the reason that man captured the hearts of so many French people - he sold over 110m records, 30m went to his 3,400 concerts- is also because he was fascinated by America, he came to embody the American Dream with the yé-yé period, with his Harley-Davidsons, his love of California etc., his followers were mainly left-leaning working-class folks but at the same time in awe of many things American, they could relate to an ordinary American citizen as a person, not as a "suppôt de Satan" as people said in those days (= a devil worshipper, except "suppôt de Satan" was politically connoted most of the time).

          With their heads brimful of stereotypes and cliches conveyed by television, those people may have disliked or been wary of the American society, what they felt the US represented etc. but that was it, it wasn’t personal. Mostly, as ursus said, people (including those who might have been prejudiced agst the US) were very curious about Americans, wanted to know a bit about them (in the 1980s and 1990s, the US did feel like an alien planet!).
          Last edited by Pérou Flaquettes; 16-12-2017, 11:41.

          Comment


            I was overstating the case. I heard anti-American comments in Greece at the time of the 2003 Iraq invasion. I doubt that people in the service sector would jeopardize their jobs by being passive aggressive to tourists. I am just wondering if Trump will cause more tutting in the streets when an American tourist is being particularly loud and behaving like they would at home, making no allowances for local sensibilities.

            Comment


              I think (and I hope) anyone wearing a Make America Great Again cap would get very short shrift

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                Yes, but then those clowns are regularly denied service in New York

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                  Is that legal (denying service on political grounds)?

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                    No, but it does happen

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                      When the crazy takes over, it's instructive to watch the ever-shifting line between True Believer and Spineless Sellout.

                      For the Republicans, the line used to be something about cutting a deal with Obama on the post-GFC stimulus. "Moderates" wanted to, insurgents said no. That was the Faith Test.

                      Now it's whether you accept the Alabama election is over. Trump - prisoner of Washington! - says it is. Moore fights on. And so the Faith Test is further redefined.

                      Comment


                        In that respect, whatever Trump says goes at the moment. Roy Moore's missed the last chopper out of Saigon.

                        Comment


                          I’d agree that that is the wrong place to draw the line. Moore is essentially on his own, with no support from national political figures.

                          I’d draw the current line as relating to the validity and credibility of Mueller’s investigations. We are starting to see Congressional Republicans echo 45”s rankings on that subject.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                            Full-on racism and misogyny this week, even more nakedly as time goes on. The base laps it up obviously but there must be some feelings of shame somewhere in GOP land. Senators have to look their kids in the eye, assuming they raised them with some decent values.
                            Sarah Huckabee Sanders says “hello”.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                              I’d agree that that is the wrong place to draw the line. Moore is essentially on his own, with no support from national political figures.

                              I’d draw the current line as relating to the validity and credibility of Mueller’s investigations. We are starting to see Congressional Republicans echo 45”s rankings on that subject.
                              typo - rantings?

                              Yes, but it depends what Mueller turns up and whether it can stick. With Nixon it was the tapes so I suspect the line would be something on tape, like him saying n***** or offering a bribe. It doesn't seem to be sufficient just to nail him lying about what he knew and when he knew it, which is perhaps all that Mueller will get from Manafort et al. He has to be caught doing something active not just passive.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                                Sarah Huckabee Sanders says “hello”.
                                I think that particular family might be religious nutjobs who think lying, racism, misogny and lawbreaking are OK if they are done for a higher "Godly" purpose. Of course they'd not be alone in that belief.

                                Comment


                                  You forgot Dog-Murdering.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by delicatemoth View Post
                                    CDC gets list of forbidden words

                                    That is, words they're not allowed to use in official budget-related documents. Quite ominous imo.

                                    Policy analysts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta were told of the list of forbidden words at a meeting Thursday with senior CDC officials who oversee the budget, according to an analyst who took part in the 90-minute briefing. The forbidden words are “vulnerable,” “entitlement,” “diversity,” “transgender,” “fetus,” “evidence-based” and “science-based.”
                                    And again, as Trump's Distraction Machine rattles to n, the destruction of American democracy, science, decency and morality continues.

                                    In a few years the climate change deniers will legitimately be able to say. "Where's the evidence?" because they will have destroyed as much of the historical data as possible and stopped collection of the ongoing stuff.

                                    Hideous.

                                    Comment


                                      I think I am becoming immune. I completely missed the fact that Donald Trump Jr dressed up as his dickhead dad for Hallowe'en. (NOT linking a picture. But you can DuckDuckGo it.)

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                                        Donald Jr. is so Fredo that it's glib to even mention it.

                                        He even looks like Fredo, with the hair and simpering, rat-like face.

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                                          Difference is that Fredo had shreds of decency. This John Hughes movie bad guy wouldn't know decency if it pissed on him.

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                                            https://www.politico.eu/article/dona...of-35-percent/

                                            35% approval with CNN. If the blue collar base clock what's happened with the tax cuts, he could be in Paul Hardcastle territory.

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                                              Speaking of the tax cuts

                                              https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/943136421765840896

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                                                Even setting aside the silliness of the example, why should a couple making $100k a year but only paying ca. $10k in taxes get a cut at all? How the hell are they paying so little tax in the first place?

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                                                  Even before we get to the dubious maths, you have to wonder how many people with $60k in wages also have side businesses that are earning this much.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Well, yes, hence the silliness of the example.

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