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    Sounds like Flynn was texting about getting Russian sanctions removed on inauguration day. That's not the transition period, is it?

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      Yeah Iran really should be America’s natural ally over there. But nah, the fucking salafist cunts are who they align with.

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        It's not, but the full story definitely leaves me with the strong impression that 20 January was not the first time Flynn had conveyed that idea to his business partners.

        It also makes clear that Flynn had a personal (and then undisclosed) financial interest in that policy outcome.
        Last edited by ursus arctos; 06-12-2017, 19:02.

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          Cheers. Yeah, before, after and during.

          I've noticed a few people emphasizing "during the transition" when minimizing. I was wondering if this the biggest suggestion so far of it going after the transition.

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            Technically it's transition until the moment he's actually inaugurated, no?

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              Originally posted by Flynnie View Post
              White evangelicals voted 81-16 for Trump. They're 25% of the electorate. We'd have a significantly different and better country without them.
              That's certainly true. But my point is that they're the sort of people who vote for Trump first and evangelical second, not the other way around. Remember that the original issue which mobilized the religious right into a movement was not abortion or LGBTQ+ rights, but their interest in getting tax breaks for "Christian" Private Schools following Brown v BOE.

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                GY, the text was reported to be during his speech, so a few minutes after he was sworn in.

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                  Originally posted by WOM View Post
                  I always look at the 'people behind him' and think 'what the fuck are you doing there?' Is this an image you're going to want your children or grandchildren to see? Is this how you want history to judge you...providing the human backdrop for this narcissistic POS who's destroying lives?
                  Was the black dude there? There's always one black guy. I hope he's been well paid.

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                    Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                    Yeah Iran really should be America’s natural ally over there. But nah, the fucking salafist cunts are who they align with.
                    Stephen Kinzer wrote a pretty decent book on this, "Reset: Iran, Turkey, and America's Future".

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                      https://twitter.com/aymanm/status/938497846134886401

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                        By "Christian faith leaders," he means a small group of fringe nutjobs who believe things like the King James Bible is the only authoritative Bible and that God wants 14-year-olds to get married. I'm confident that he didn't consult, for example, the Pope or the World Council of Churches.

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                          I never wondered if Trump had dentures before, but it seems pretty hard to doubt that now, his speech sounded odd and his teeth don't seem natural:

                          https://twitter.com/i/web/status/938475113292419073

                          https://twitter.com/i/web/status/938475113292419073
                          Last edited by Incandenza; 06-12-2017, 21:27.

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                            Originally posted by Gerontophile View Post
                            Are Iran evil? Obviously the ayatollahs are arseholes, but I suspect the people are much more progressive, given the chance.
                            On my one visit to Iran*, the overwhelming majority of the folk over there requested me to do only one thing: report back in my own country that the ordinary Iranian people do not share the hawkish views of the reigning regime. So yeah, I would agree that the people are much more progressive, given the chance. But since when does that matter in any country...

                            *can totally recommend, by the way. Isfahan is a beautiful city, and the people are extremely happy to share their culture with you. It was a lovely trip.

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                              I’d love to go there.

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                                Iranians are some of the most progressive people I know.

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                                  Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                  The Saudis don’t give two fucks for Palestine at all, do they? So there will be mealy mouthed condemnation, but SA Egypt and Israel will continue as the world’s most pig evil axis. Suppose we could dream the effects of a new intifada spill into Saudi and destroy every bastard family member, that the US gets its ass handed to it just like Lebanon in 82. But nah, we’re just going to see the tacit approval by the Gulf States and Egypt for a new destruction of Gaza, and the West Bank, and Lebanon. It’s a shitty situation when I’m cheering on Iran and proxies.
                                  The Saudis have no interest in the Palestinians it's true (hence their alliance with Israel). However their legitimacy in the Muslim world* rests more or less entirely on the regime's title of "Guardian of the Holy Shrines". This is all about Mecca and Medina but Jerusalem is the third most important site in Islam and they can't be seen to be legitimising its loss.

                                  (*nearly every Muslim I've ever met loathes the Saudis, the only exceptions being Saudis themselves)

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                                    Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                    The Saudis have no interest in the Palestinians it's true (hence their alliance with Israel). However their legitimacy in the Muslim world* rests more or less entirely on the regime's title of "Guardian of the Holy Shrines". This is all about Mecca and Medina but Jerusalem is the third most important site in Islam and they can't be seen to be legitimising its loss.

                                    (*nearly every Muslim I've ever met loathes the Saudis, the only exceptions being Saudis themselves)
                                    Outside the ruling clan, I suspect a lot of them hate it too, but they’re not allowed to say so.

                                    Yeah, a Muslim guy I know says he will not do a pilgrimage to Mecca as long as those assholes are in charge.

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                                      Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                      Jerusalem might be the worst decision of his entire shoddy Presidency. Totally reckless with Middle Eastern security and purely to satiate his anti-Muslim animus. I don't think it even works as distraction because this is a shitstorm that will play out alongside Mueller, not instead of.
                                      I don’t really understand how this makes things any worse. It shows that US policy is to help the Israeli government exterminate Palestine. But that was the case regardless of where we put our embassy. So how does this make the “peace process” harder?

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                                        In brief, it antagonizes Arab allies, weakens Arab moderates, fuels radicals who will celebrate it as proof that the U.S. is the enemy of Palestinians and Muslims, and breaks with the rest of the international community.

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                                          It also gives the Israeli government and its supporters something to point to point to and say, 'See? Jerusalem is a legitimate capital!'

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                                            Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                                            In brief, it antagonizes Arab allies, weakens Arab moderates, fuels radicals who will celebrate it as proof that the U.S. is the enemy of Palestinians and Muslims, and breaks with the rest of the international community.
                                            I was unaware that there was anyone left in the world who hoped the US was a remotely honest broker in this situation, especially after Trump took over.

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                                              True. But there was always the sense of "the US supports Israel but tries to do so while paying lip service to the Geneva conventions"

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                                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                                It also gives the Israeli government and its supporters something to point to point to and say, 'See? Jerusalem is a legitimate capital!'
                                                Yeah, but they’re going to do that anyway. Nobody who was previously unconvinced by that claim is going to be persuaded because Trump says so.

                                                It seems to me that both countries should be able to share it. But of course, if it were up to me, we would all learn to share the whole planet fairly. But we don’t. It’s like the whole world is run by two-year olds.

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                                                  They've just reinvigorated Daesh at a stroke (which is quite possibly one of the reasons for doing it)

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                                                    Does ISIS really care about Israel? I mean, they are allies in the war against Assad, and their target is other Muslims and Christian minorities in the regions they terrorise, plus whatever credit they can take for terror acts committed by their fans in the West. They've been pretty quiet on Israel. Unless you mean that newly radicalised people will want to join Daesh now. In which case you may be right.

                                                    Meanwhile, Pope Francis has weighed in on criticising recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
                                                    Last edited by G-Man; 07-12-2017, 05:26.

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