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    That's probably because she spent the whole election talking about Trump

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      And "identity politics". Or civil rights, as it used to be called.

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        Categorizing Trump on Immigration as 'Issue' is giving it more coherence than it actually had. You need to break down each issue into 'Rhetoric' and 'Substantive' to show that Trump was 95% empty bluster (and to be fair, Clinton was far too much feel-goody multiculturalism without much meat as to how to deliver it, at least in the speeches and walkabouts; expecting punters to actually check the website now seems hopelessly to overestimate the punters).

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          As a tangent, I see lots about the New York Subway being in poor condition.

          Has anybody thought of not running it for 24 hours a day?

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            I am making no excuses for the media in their role in the election, but Clinton's campaign was so wishy-washy when it came to messaging and taking big stances on policy. Trump and immigration could be boiled down to "build the wall." There was no mistaking his position. If Clinton had come out and said "$15 minimum wage" or "free public universities" or a basic, unmistakable, non-triangulated policy, she no doubt would have been attacked in the media, but the message would have gotten out there and people would have known what she actually stood for. The average voter isn't going to spend the time to look at a candidate's website and read over policy positions. It's like the Dem idea that people will be opposed to the government giving them healthcare, but they'd be happy to go onto a website and compare different exchanges and find what kind of coverage they could get based on their income level, etc.--the Obamacare dream.

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              We had a candidate who "you know where he stands". It went well quite electorally, but I wasn't over confident about its viability.

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                  That's including "get rid of Obamacare" as policy, right?

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                    I think that's right about "change", Bruno. London voted in sodding Boris Johnson in 2008 because he was a "breath of fresh air". Funnily enough, this came with complete ignorance of policy, and he spunked a fortune on silly buses and much else.

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                      Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                      And "identity politics". Or civil rights, as it used to be called.
                      Identity politics is seeing social justice as separate from economic justice. Civil rights encompasses both.

                      Imagine if MLK campaigned for people like Rosa Parks to be able to sit at the front of the bus, while simultaneously taking loads of money from Wall Street and privatising her bus route such that she could no longer afford the fare. That's the 21st century Democrats for you.

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                        Originally posted by antoine polus View Post
                        Identity politics is seeing social justice as separate from economic justice. Civil rights encompasses both.

                        Imagine if MLK campaigned for people like Rosa Parks to be able to sit at the front of the bus, while simultaneously taking loads of money from Wall Street and privatising her bus route such that she could no longer afford the fare. That's the 21st century Democrats for you.
                        Opposing voter suppression isn't "identity politics" because Wall Street. It's civil rights.

                        Maybe Rosa Parks could have got tax credits.

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                          From the Tax Foundation.

                          On a static basis, Clinton’s tax plan would raise taxes on the top 20 percent of taxpayers and cut taxes for taxpayers in all other income quintiles. Taxpayers in the top quintile (between 80% and 100%) would see a reduction in after-tax income of 2.1 percent. Those in the top 10 percent (between 90% and 100%) would see a reduction in income of 2.8 percent. The top 1 percent of all taxpayers would see the largest reduction in after-tax income of 6.6 percent. Taxpayers in the three middle quintiles would see an increase in after-tax income of between 0.1 percent and 0.5 percent. The largest increase in after-tax incomes (2.2 percent) would go to taxpayers in the bottom quintile.
                          cf the IFS on UK parties plans. In fairness, all would probably do a bit better because of Labour's fiscal stimulus. But you can make a case that Clinton on tax is more progressive than Corbyn in terms of changes to the status quo.

                          https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/...in_the_labour/

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                            Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                            Opposing voter suppression isn't "identity politics" because Wall Street. It's civil rights.
                            That's because opposing voter suppression is one of the things that the corporations funding the Democrats will let them do.

                            It doesn't really make much difference to Apple if the Republicans or Democrats get more votes.

                            But minimum wage or universal healthcare. Forget it.

                            I still don't understand how people can not see that Democratic politicians taking lots and lots of money from corporations is wrong.

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                              The top 1 percent of all taxpayers would see the largest reduction in after-tax income of 6.6 percent.
                              Income.

                              Any billionaire paying actual income tax in the top bracket has a very shitty accountant.

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                                It doesn't say "income tax". It says "income", because they take into account all forms of income.

                                She did support a higher minimum wage, $12. Not all that different from "radical" John McDonnell's £10.

                                They got a lot more people covered for health. Would have got a lot more too if 19 states hadn't refused to expand Medicaid, or do it half heartedly. John Kasich isn't a lefty but he's managed to make it work reasonably well in Ohio. It's not Hilary Clinton's fault that about half the states are run by people well to the right of him.

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                                  Mike fucking Pence expanded Medicaid. That's how lunatic the 19 not expanders are.

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                                    There is a nazi hate speech rally in Boston, where about 300 turned up for it.

                                    The peaceful protestors number is 30,000 and rising. The 300 have been totally surrounded and are hiding in a bandstand.

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                                      I realise that picture shows only about 100 nazis in a gazebo, but those poor, brave boys mainly fucked off when they saw the counter protest.

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                                        Originally posted by Gerontophile View Post
                                        100 nazis in a gazebo
                                        Thankfully Natalie Merchant saw sense.

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                                          Fox had "leftwing activists" making their way to protest earlier. In fairness, the bit of film I saw made these dangerous subversives look pretty benign. Is there some sort of disconnect between the VT editor and the caption people?

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                                            Wetting myself now Toby. Unfortunately close to literally.

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                                              This is a hoot, if you haven't seen it before. "Intellectual Brexiter" says he's "warming to Trump".

                                              http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wa...rticle/2607212

                                              The bit that Dan Hannan claims his 14 year old daughter said is hilarious.

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                                                Toby G - fantastic.

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                                                  Originally posted by antoine polus View Post
                                                  Identity politics is seeing social justice as separate from economic justice. Civil rights encompasses both.

                                                  Imagine if MLK campaigned for people like Rosa Parks to be able to sit at the front of the bus, while simultaneously taking loads of money from Wall Street and privatising her bus route such that she could no longer afford the fare. That's the 21st century Democrats for you.
                                                  That is an awesome point that I will steal.

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                                                    Actually, I confused the Tax Foundation with the Tax Policy Center. The latter are more reliable. But they're in the same ball park for distributional effects of the Clinton plan, by the look of it.

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