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    #26
    French presidential election, 2017

    I dunno why France gets this rep (especially in the US and rw UK media) for being full of pinko socialists.

    With a few exceptions (the noble failure of Leon Blum pre ww2, the duplicitous and corrupt failure Mitterand, and the current spanner) France's default Pres is exactly the type of wank who lives in a castle and hates teh gays. (France also saw massive and fractious demos against gay marriage I doubt even the Nordies will repeat when they forced to legislate for civilization).

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      #27
      French presidential election, 2017

      Because my stereotype of all French people is this:

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        #28
        French presidential election, 2017

        An Algerian!

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          #29
          French presidential election, 2017

          Sarkozy out is good news for sure. It would have been a massive gamble against Le Pen, such is his lack of popularity with anybody but his devoted fans.

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            #30
            French presidential election, 2017

            laverte wrote: An Algerian!
            He became a French citizen, I thought.

            Either way, there's something especially disappointing seeing France run by this gongshow of assholes. Britain has always had its upper-class twits, and we enjoy watching them on Masterpiece Theater, and we expect Italy to be a bit of a mess since it hasn't been unified very long and the roads are all a bit too windy. We expect Germany to just get shit done - for better or worse - and Spain to just keep it together as best it can, but we expect France to aspire to so much more what with its many revolutions and food and bikes and paintings and Joans of Arc. But it's leaders aren't even all that interesting.

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              #31
              French presidential election, 2017

              Laverte was being facetious, Algeria was part of France and all "colonials" there were full-fledged French citizens. Actually everybody in Algeria had French citizenship, except Muslim Algerians. Camus wasn't all that enlightened though, he for example was against Algerian independence. There is a good perspective from Edward Said in "culture and Imperialism", one of Said's seminal works, full text here:

              https://archive.org/stream/Edward.W.Said_Culture.and.Imperialism/Edward.W.Said_Culture.and.Imperialism_djvu.txt

              The chapter entitled "Camus and the French Imperial Experience" covers it well.

              Either way, there's something especially disappointing seeing France run by this gongshow of assholes. Britain has always had its upper-class twits, and we enjoy watching them on Masterpiece Theater, and we expect Italy to be a bit of a mess since it hasn't been unified very long and the roads are all a bit too windy. We expect Germany to just get shit done - for better or worse - and Spain to just keep it together as best it can, but we expect France to aspire to so much more what with its many revolutions and food and bikes and paintings and Joans of Arc. But it's leaders aren't even all that interesting.
              There are a lot more assholes the last couple of decades, but that hasn't been always the case. Chirac for instance stood up to Bush and steered clear of the colonial destruction of Iraq. People like Raymond Barre were very competent and principled politicians. Fillon might not be that bad, he looks like he might be from that same line. The same cannot be said about half the leaders from this last set of center-right candidates, and many of their center-left counterparts.

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                #32
                French presidential election, 2017

                linus wrote: Laverte was being facetious, Algeria was part of France and all "colonials" there were full-fledged French citizens. Actually everybody in Algeria had French citizenship, except Muslim Algerians. Camus wasn't all that enlightened though, he for example was against Algerian independence. There is a good perspective from Edward Said in "culture and Imperialism", one of Said's seminal works, full text here:

                https://archive.org/stream/Edward.W.Said_Culture.and.Imperialism/Edward.W.Said_Culture.and.Imperialism_djvu.txt

                The chapter entitled "Camus and the French Imperial Experience" covers it well.
                Camus' position was, apparently, a bit more complicated.
                https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/feb/28/albert-camus-algeria-anniversary-row

                I don't think supporting wars for independence is automatically "enlightened," but that's a long other topic. And, anyway, I wasn't trying to say he was the best French person ever, just that the image of the cool intellectual smoking casually in black and white is the stereotype I choose to maintain of France. That and Asterix. Oh, and Zidane's head-butt. I don't really follow cycling so nothing comes to mind from there.

                Chirac for instance stood up to Bush and steered clear of the colonial destruction of Iraq.
                I'm not sure Chirac was interested in saving Iraq so much as not sending his own people and money on a mission into a bottomless pit led by morons. "Standing up to Bush" on that just shows that he wasn't a complete idiot. A low bar. (A low bar that nevertheless, a certain other well-known European leader failed to clear, of course.)

                And Chirac sent French people and money to die in Afghanistan and, needless to say, that doesn't seem to have reduced its exposure to terrorist attack. (Arguably, he was obligated to under NATO.) And France has people fighting and dying in places that, if Obama tried to put troops, the US public would shit a racist brick.
                (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/world/africa/leading-role-for-france-as-africa-battles-back.html?_r=0)

                The popular lazy hack comedian/Republican joke about the French is that they only know how to surrender, when in fact, as long as I can think back, they've always had people deployed in what sounds like hell on earth.

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                  #33
                  French presidential election, 2017

                  I have a similarly distorted perception/false expectation of French politics to HP's I think. It stems from the fact that my politically formative years, around when I reached the age of majority in 1981, were characterised by Britain veering at breakneck speed to the right under Thatcher while France elected Socialist President Mitterand, who started his term in office with two junior coalition partner Communist ministers in his cabinet, to the consternation of the US administration.

                  In terms of poor quality French post-war leaders, how about ex-Pres Valery G d'E and his novel fantasising about romance with Lady Di? That must be up there in the embarrassment stakes with pretty much anything else in the western world pre-Trump.

                  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/sep/21/french-president-romance-princess-diana

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                    #34
                    French presidential election, 2017

                    Mitterand soon fell into line with the prevailing neoliberal turn with his abrupt March 1983 tournant de la rigeur (turn to austerity). Mitterand’s Keynsianism, his 100 propositions pour la France was abandoned by the requirements of membership of the EMS (which tied the franc to the mark and thus straitened macroeconomic domestic policy intervention) as well as the hostility of domestic business and banks and the monetarist economists in ascendancy within the Banque de France and the wider academic community.

                    It was a turning point in the history of the EU, the future of currency union and the growing hegemony of monetarism- even the nation of Government led dirigisme, les trentes glorieuses was falling into line with “the new realism”.

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                      #35
                      French presidential election, 2017

                      Mitterand of course also signed off on the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior. The cunt.

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                        #36
                        French presidential election, 2017

                        Looking at the outline of the propositions now. The 20th was to defend the Franc against speculators, so I'm not sure it was going to plan before the turn.

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                          #37
                          French presidential election, 2017

                          The 96th Proposition called for the prohibition of any kind of censorship, including in barracks and prisons.
                          Did that go anywhere? "Brave", as Sir Humphrey would call it.

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                            #38
                            French presidential election, 2017

                            We were talking Mitterand biographies a while ago. I liked Tiersky the best, but I couldn't find the Caro-on-LBJ size work that I expected would exist.

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                              #39
                              French presidential election, 2017

                              An amusing diversion.

                              The section of Fillon's manifesto on Frontiers features a map with the two Germanies

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                                #40
                                French presidential election, 2017

                                Ha ha.

                                Kippers and Tories should be able to get some mileage out of that. A map showing the Pas de Calais and Kent as "Transmanche" kept them going long ennough. Modernising David Cameron was happy for one of his Shadow Cabinet (Eric Pickles) to mouth on about a Brussels plot to split the UK into regions.

                                Brexit looks inevitable in hindsight.

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                                  #41
                                  French presidential election, 2017

                                  Geoffrey de Ste. Croix wrote: Mitterand soon fell into line with the prevailing neoliberal turn with his abrupt March 1983 tournant de la rigeur (turn to austerity). Mitterand’s Keynsianism, his 100 propositions pour la France was abandoned by the requirements of membership of the EMS (which tied the franc to the mark and thus straitened macroeconomic domestic policy intervention) as well as the hostility of domestic business and banks and the monetarist economists in ascendancy within the Banque de France and the wider academic community.

                                  It was a turning point in the history of the EU, the future of currency union and the growing hegemony of monetarism- even the nation of Government led dirigisme, les trentes glorieuses was falling into line with “the new realism”.
                                  I'm relatively well-educated and yet was unfamiliar with the word "straitened" until just now when I looked it up. I could guess at it, because we do sometimes use "straits" - usually preceded by "dire" - but I still wasn't sure if it was perhaps just a misspelling of "strangled" or "straightened." I guess it's not one we use in the US much.

                                  I also had to look-up dirigisme.

                                  "Brexit looks inevitable in hindsight.
                                  " Livet skal forstaas baglaens, men leves forlaens."

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                                    #42
                                    French presidential election, 2017

                                    That looks strangely like Latin.

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                                      #43
                                      French presidential election, 2017

                                      Danish

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                                        #44
                                        French presidential election, 2017

                                        " Livet skal forstaas baglaens, men leves forlaens."

                                        My knowledge of Scandinavian suggests:

                                        Life shall be understood in hindsight, but is lived in foresight.

                                        Kirkegaard? (I can't think of any other Dane)

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                                          #45
                                          French presidential election, 2017

                                          Laudrup.

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                                            #46
                                            French presidential election, 2017

                                            Jon Dahl Tomasson

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                                              #47
                                              French presidential election, 2017

                                              With a bit of effort, that seems intelligible with the help of Bryan's parsing. Dunno about Danish (though I hear it is quite difficult), my less than superficial attempts at Dutch were disheartening. It can look (and sound, especially when para as fuck and coming down on the tram) a lot like English, but I seemed to mangle everything, like in Portugal most folk gave a pitying laugh and switched to English.

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                                                #48
                                                French presidential election, 2017

                                                antoine polus wrote: " Livet skal forstaas baglaens, men leves forlaens."

                                                My knowledge of Scandinavian suggests:

                                                Life shall be understood in hindsight, but is lived in foresight.

                                                Kirkegaard? (I can't think of any other Dane)
                                                Yes. Though that's not exactly what he said. It was more long-winded.

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                                                  #49
                                                  French presidential election, 2017

                                                  Does said quote appear in the sleeve notes to Everything Must Go?

                                                  Edit: Google possibly suggesting it might have been the single, The Masses Against The Classes. (I don't have the inserts any longer to check.)

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                                                    #50
                                                    French presidential election, 2017

                                                    Not even a tangent, but I recall a quote from the main character in Ian Banks' Espedair Street. I've made a lot of mistakes that have paid off and a lot of smart moves I'll regret forever.

                                                    There must be lots of great quotes like that. But you can't really put them in a quiz. What sort of answer is "the main character in Espedair Street"?

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