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    Do you believe in the Westworld?

    Ah, good old TOH and Kirk Brandon! but apart from that, I finally caught up with Episode 1 of HBO's brave new hope.

    So, it's a long time since I saw the original film, and I must admit my only memory is Yul Bryner looked damned cool in it, and of course it's Jurassic Park with stetsons. Old Crighton must have had a very unhappy experience in theme parks when he was younger.

    But this episode - super well made as you would expect, nice twisting bits around who are [strike]relicants [/strike] not human, but it is rather telegraphed in , this isn't going to end well.
    But it looks absolutely lovely, acting is on point and I will continue to watch, and hope this technology takes off and I can have a nice host to help me cut the hedges.

    #2
    Do you believe in the Westworld?

    It would have to be a replica of famous 80s TV butler Robert Guillaume.
    Because nothing goes together quite like Benson and hedges.

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      #3
      Do you believe in the Westworld?

      I'm intrigued as to how they've spun it out into a series. As you say, the original story is pretty basic - theme park with armed robots, what could possibly go wrong? - so how does that become an ongoing narrative?

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        #4
        Do you believe in the Westworld?

        oh I think the mechas will develop feelings, will learn to love, hate, learn to carve intricate furniture.
        Then spend all day playing video games, and causing fights outside kebab shops at night - basically evolve.
        While the humans will agonise ( and die a lot)

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          #5
          Do you believe in the Westworld?

          hobbes wrote: It would have to be a replica of famous 80s TV butler Robert Guillaume.
          Because nothing goes together quite like Benson and hedges.
          I'd take anyone , until my ribs mend (damaged through a bike injury, not through mirth at your joke,)

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            #6
            Do you believe in the Westworld?

            Ouch. Take it easy VTTB.

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              #7
              Do you believe in the Westworld?

              I'm recording the second episode tonight, having overcome any initial doubts while watching the first one, which I found interesting and steadily engrossing. Slick, too. If you haven't seen the first one, give it a go. Unlike the movie, the other 'worlds' - medieval and roman - have been jettisoned (too expensive to recreate, probably), focusing on Westworld itself, and it's no bad thing. Hopefully, the rest of the series will be just as fascinating. Gobsmacking title sequence, too.

              All that said, I hope unfair comparisons of the film and the series will not be needed. Yep, the movie, which popped up again on telly again recently, is becoming a little looser at the seams as far as envisioning how its hi-tec future looks, but its economical, non-showy, old-school scares and tensions still works (Yul Brynner's black-garbed gunslinger staggering around as if in silent, slow agony after being soaked with acid, liquid simulated flesh dribbling down his shoulders, is a grim, quietly-compelling sequence). Anyway, I grew up watching this flick on the TV, so I can't help but hold an affection for it.

              Film and series: check 'em both out.

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                #8
                Do you believe in the Westworld?

                The film is excellent. I'm terrible at sitting down and following a series from beginning to end, which means in all probability I'll never see this. Shame, because it sounds intriguing.

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                  #9
                  Do you believe in the Westworld?

                  I have to say that, upon seeing the ads, I thought it was a a bit of a stretch to draw the plot of the original film out to fill a series.

                  Plus, of course, the moment when the Brynner-bot smiles that cold, satisfied smile is insurpassable, IMHO.

                  However, changing subject slightly, I must really catch up on 'Akta Manniskor' (the first series) before Channel 4 screens the second series of 'Real Humans'.

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                    #10
                    Do you believe in the Westworld?

                    I'm terrible at sitting down and following a series from beginning to end

                    If I'm honest, I'm a little skeptical of long TV series that demand the obligation where you must stick with them as if it was a duty, which is why I shy away from all those TV shows that everyone else rhapsodises over. Life's more than just box-sets. Anyway, I'll give Westworld a go, if only to be intrigued whether they can add flesh (so to speak) to a movie that had - and still has - a ferociously effective concept behind it.

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                      #11
                      Do you believe in the Westworld?

                      I''m enjoying it but it's a bit HBO-by-numbers, pandering to the GoT demographic with the breasts and moments of extreme violence.
                      Plenty of scope for development with your basic SF nature-of-consciousness, androids-more-human-than-their-creators type thingy played out for as long as they want. Plus social commentary on the 1%ers who make up the park's customers, and those of us who serve them. And in the film there wasn't just Westworld but Roman World and others. They'd be worth a visit
                      My main problem other than the slowness of episode 2 was the younger British actor, the scenario designer. Fuck me, but is he wooden or what? I looked him up and nothing notable on his CV. He's distractingly bad.

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                        #12
                        Do you believe in the Westworld?

                        My main problem other than the slowness of episode 2 was the younger British actor, the scenario designer. Fuck me, but is he wooden or what? I looked him up and nothing notable on his CV. He's distractingly bad.

                        I agree completely. He's a sore-thumb element amongst a raft of good performances. If someone had advised him to act in the style of an annoying, shouty, dimensionless twat then he's pulling it off to perfection. A strange move for the producers to make.

                        Unless he's playing a badly-malfunctioning unit from the failed Woodenworld who's managed to smuggle himself into the complex, then he's doing a grand job.

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                          #13
                          Do you believe in the Westworld?

                          I don't know if it's the acting or the writing with him. It's not unlike HBO to have make their villains cartoonishly so, in contrast with the source material. Joffrey's much more one-dimensionally evil incarnate in the show than the books.

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                            #14
                            Do you believe in the Westworld?

                            *POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD*

                            Enjoying this although I'm confused by the timeline.

                            Is the whole park on a 24 hour loop? Or do the individual robots get reset at various points? And if they are individually reset wouldn't this confuse their interactions ("Hi Teddy, didn't you die yesterday?")?

                            Also, if the "newcomers" are there for up to 28 days (do they all arrive and leave at the same time?) isn't it a bit crap that people they've shot dead are back again a day or so later? How do the ongoing storylines progress with hosts being killed and returning seemingly on a daily basis?

                            The Man in Black has been there for the entire duration of the first two episodes, so how many incarnations of Teddy has he seen? Does everything keep resetting and repeating for him?

                            Also I'm concerned about the health and safety implications of knives and bows and arrows, I can understand that the guns somehow don't kill the humans (although if the "hosts" are programmed not to harm the humans do they know that the guns won't harm them?) although they "kill" the hosts but a knife or an arrow would still injure them wouldn't it?

                            Hopefully some of these questions will be answered in future episodes.

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                              #15
                              Do you believe in the Westworld?

                              Episode 2 out of the way, and I am starting to lose some patience on this.

                              It seems, well a bit sick, and i know it's being set up to get us human viewers to cheer when the rebellion will come; but several more episodes of wanton cruelty , just reminds me of all those Ramsey/Theon scenes.

                              There are a few story lines that could get interesting; but getting squeemish (sic) at the thought of more red ink.

                              Still wonderfully shot and framed though.

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                                #16
                                Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                Is the whole park on a 24 hour loop? Or do the individual robots get reset at various points? And if they are individually reset wouldn't this confuse their interactions ("Hi Teddy, didn't you die yesterday?")?
                                It's pretty clear everything is reset at the same time so that the narratives all sync (at least until human intervention). I'm not sure they've explicitly stated its every 24 hours, but probably.

                                The Man in Black has been there for the entire duration of the first two episodes, so how many incarnations of Teddy has he seen? Does everything keep resetting and repeating for him?
                                Thousands, probably? In the second episode, they make it sound like he's been going for years.

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                                  #17
                                  Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                  Ginger Yellow wrote:
                                  Is the whole park on a 24 hour loop? Or do the individual robots get reset at various points? And if they are individually reset wouldn't this confuse their interactions ("Hi Teddy, didn't you die yesterday?")?
                                  It's pretty clear everything is reset at the same time so that the narratives all sync (at least until human intervention). I'm not sure they've explicitly stated its every 24 hours, but probably.

                                  The Man in Black has been there for the entire duration of the first two episodes, so how many incarnations of Teddy has he seen? Does everything keep resetting and repeating for him?
                                  Thousands, probably? In the second episode, they make it sound like he's been going for years.
                                  If all the hosts are reset at the same time how do they ensure that they aren't interacting with a guest at the time?

                                  And for long duration guests wouldn't it be infuriating to see exactly the same interactions day after day (or week after week)? I guess this does explain the motivation of The Man in Black to find the next level of the "game".

                                  The 28 day limit on guest stays would suggest that that would be a good time to reset the hosts but we've clearly seen that this isn't the case and it would also rely on all the guests arriving and leaving on the same days.

                                  I'm probably overthinking this.

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                                    #18
                                    Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                    never saw (or even heard of) the movie but very impressed with the first two episodes of this

                                    If I'm honest, I'm a little skeptical of long TV series that demand the obligation where you must stick with them as if it was a duty, which is why I shy away from all those TV shows that everyone else rhapsodises over. Life's more than just box-sets.
                                    this is like saying you couldn't be bothered with anna karenina because it's too long. you are missing all the best stuff on TV.

                                    as with a crazy-long book that you nevertheless read voraciously, the good TV series don't "demand the obligation" to watch, so much as create the compulsion.

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                                      #19
                                      Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                      Yeah, I'm generally the opposite. I almost always hate shows that are designed so that audiences can jump in at any point. It usually means that character development and narrative are compromised, and all too often leads to a rote serialised episode structure.

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                                        #20
                                        Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                        To add something else, I don't mind long and involved so long as the show runners have a definite end in mind.

                                        With Anna Karenina you know that there is a definite end. With GoT we're assured there is a definite end.

                                        I'm sure the wire doesn't fit into this but there was some degree of resolution at the end of each series.

                                        Lost lost me when they just kept piling things on top of each other but never seemed to move closer to the end of the story.

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                                          #21
                                          Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                          That's a different thing though. It's the JJ Abrams school of TV, where you set up a big mystery at the beginning and then spin out the show for as long as possible without resolving it and adding new mysteries whenever you solve an existing one. I'd agree that's usually a terrible way to make a TV show (in artistic terms). It doesn't have to be inherently "long and involved" - indeed many of these shows get cancelled after their first season, and use a monster-of-the-week structure with a tiny bit of larger arc development each episode.

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                                            #22
                                            Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                            To add something else, I don't mind long and involved so long as the show runners have a definite end in mind.

                                            Exactly. I don't mind long, winding TV shows where an end (climactic, dull, anything) to all events, wrapped up to any neat extent is assured. The makers of Westworld have already hinted this series may extend to a few more. Ah, well.

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                                              #23
                                              Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                              It all does seems a bit Lost, doesn't it? Which from what I know of that series wouldn't be a good thing because apparently it turned out to be a lot of old nonsense.
                                              Do you have to be a video game enthusiast to enjoy it fully? I'm not one and wondering if that's maybe why it's leaving me slightly cold so far
                                              It's quite diverting, though.

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                                                #24
                                                Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                                Yes, I'm starting to worry that it's definitely going the way of "Lost" in that it thinks it's way cleverer than it actually is. Every question that is answered leads to another series of questions with random mysteries thrown in as red herrings and nothing actually stacking up when you think about it too much.

                                                Hopefully, some of the questions will be answered properly and the plot will become more coherent otherwise it's all just going to feel like a big cheat by the writers.

                                                Oh and a question which is bugging me, if the Man in Black has "read every page except for the last one" how come he's never come across Armistice and the other bandits before? They seem to be part of a scenario which rolls into town every 28 days or so (remember it was sped up in a previous episode to give an excuse to bring in all the upgraded hosts), so it seems unbelievable that someone who's been visiting the park for the last 30 years would be unaware of them.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Do you believe in the Westworld?

                                                  Oh and a question which is bugging me, if the Man in Black has "read every page except for the last one" how come he's never come across Armistice and the other bandits before? They seem to be part of a scenario which rolls into town every 28 days or so (remember it was sped up in a previous episode to give an excuse to bring in all the upgraded hosts), so it seems unbelievable that someone who's been visiting the park for the last 30 years would be unaware of them.

                                                  I was just pondering about that character. I was wondering whether he was a robot, but had been given the belief by his makers (for their own agenda) that he was a guest, and that he was exempted from the effects of any gunfire or anything else that would mark him out as a human simulacra.

                                                  Harris is terrific (as is Evan Rachel Wood), and the series is watchable, even if it doesn't exactly hang heavy in the mind afterwards, and, yes, that 'this-could-go-on-forever' feeling is a bit strong, admittedly.

                                                  One more thing: there was a quietly stunning moment when Anthony Hopkins's Ford character tells the story of the early days of Westworld and a sequence shows his younger self smiling warmly at one of his early models brought in for repair. The image of a young Hopkins's face seamlessly planted onto the body of a slim, young actor was astonishing, and probably held its own unspoken comment on humans and technological advancement in itself.

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