Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

[Gerontophile]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

I think the Arse have just scored with the last kick of the game.

And win 1-0.

[Jah Womble]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Shouldn't have stood - handball.

[Gerontophile]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Should have had a penalty about 2 minutes earlier.

[Nefertiti2]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

If a ball hits a hand and its not deliberate, (which it clearly wasn't in this case), then it's not handball.

[Jah Womble]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Clear handball.

[Mr Beast]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

I don't know if you can give handball for that. I thought it might have been offside from the flick on but I've only seen it once.

[Nefertiti2]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

The ball definitely hit Koscielny's hand (as it had twice hit Burnley players' hands in the penalty area earlier in the game). In each case -and correctly-no free kick was awarded.

Spurs looked good earlier.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

If koscielny did that in his own penalty area that would be a penalty. You can't score a goal by lashing what looks like a clearance off your own hand.

[Snake Plissken]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Fuck off with doing that shit to me, football.

[Gerontophile]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote: If koscielny did that in his own penalty area that would be a penalty. You can't score a goal by lashing what looks like a clearance off your own hand.

Oxlade-Chamberlain played it off him. Closer to offside than handball.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

I don't think it was oxlade chamberlain. I think they figured it out eventually.

[Gerontophile]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Oxlade-Chamberlain battered the ball off Koscielny's arms into the net. Ox then buggered off, claiming the goal, while Kos was injured by the keeper walloping him.

Although you are probably right, as I was too busy jumping in the air in surprise. I was expecting 0-0.

[jwdd27]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

An uncomfortable few minutes for Thierry Henry discussing the possible/probable handball for the goal.
I was itching for the presenter guy to ask if anything similar had ever happened to him during his career.

[Outside Agent]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

That winning goal for Arsenal was a truly shocking miss by the officials. It's a clear handball in the sense that Koscielny has deliberately moved his arm upwards into a position where it's beside his head, also meaning it's in an 'un-natural position'. When that incident is shown in the next referees meeting, there won't be one hand that goes up for 'no handball', including Craig Pawson's.

Between that and the late penalty awarded against Southampton when Giroud & Fonte were both grappling with one another, I'd hope the inevitable paranoia might quieten a bit when Mike Dean next takes charge of an Arsenal game.

[Jah Womble]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Indeed. They seem to be cashing in those 'get out of jail' cards on a weekly basis these days...

[Hot Orange]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Outside Agent wrote: also meaning it's in an 'un-natural position'.

You can put 'un-natural position' in quotes if you like, but that doesn't make it part of the laws of the game.

In fact, the law says "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement" - i.e. you can put your hands where you damn well please (and why shouldn't you?), but it's only an offence if you use them to deliberately handle the ball.

[Janik]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Yes, but the guidance notes incorporated with the laws of the game make it clear that placing your arms in such a way to make yourself bigger barrier to the ball going past shall be considered a deliberate action and therefore deliberate handball even in cases where the was no other movement of the hand towards the ball or other sign of intent. An 'unnatural position' is consider enough to make any subsequent contact of ball with hand a deliberate handball.

[Hot Orange]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Gosh, there's a 210-page document and guidance notes?

I haven't been able to find the "unnatural position" advice documented. Which isn't to say it doesn't exist, of course.

It just seems to me that, week after week, a sanction for a clearly accidental handball is justified on the position of the player's hands or arms, when the rules explicitly state that their position does not necessarily constitute an infringement. You see defenders putting their hands behind their backs when they face a shot for fear that, should the shot hit their hands, they will be penalised. Now, that's an unnatural position.

I haven't seen today's incident, I should add.

[Janik]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Hot Orange wrote: the law says "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement" - i.e. you can put your hands where you damn well please

Not quite. That phrase implies that the position of the hand alone can be enough for there to be an infringement on some occasions. 'Not necessarily' leaves both possiblities open. It doesn't support your conclusion therefore.

[Janik]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Hot Orange wrote: I haven't seen today's incident, I should add.

Neither have I, for that matter. But specific examples aren't vital to a discussion like this.

[Hot Orange]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

I disagree, It's all under a section beginning "Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm", and is one item in a list of scenarios to be considered. There is always therefore a requirement for the handling to be deliberate. Positioning of the hand without deliberation cannot constitute an offence, according to my reading of those rules.

[Janik]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Unless the positioning of the arm is itself considered a deliberate action to gain an unfair advantage. Then the rest follows.
That is why the phrase 'unnatural position' has became known. If a hand is up in the air naturally, it can't be handball without some other sign of intent. But if it's there unnaturally, well that is intent enough.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Football, eh? Such a uniting force for good.

[Timewaster]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

Jah Womble wrote: Indeed. They seem to be cashing in those 'get out of jail' cards on a weekly basis these days...

Top work! Just after the goal, I thought about logging in to post, "JW to thread: you are contractually obliged to tell us how lucky Arsenal were or that Burnley were crap or both." I should've known there'd be no need. I'm struggling to stretch twice(?) this season to 'a weekly basis' but you're the expert!

[sardines on toast]

Doesn't anybody watch Man United anymore?

as an unashamed arsenal fan that was the most cathartic victory i've possibly ever experienced. playing shit northern teams away from home and not winning is a recurrent nightmare, going back through chris morgan's unseen kidney punches, allardyce's anklebreakers, the di canio/alcock game, the shawcross special, robbie fucking keane (yes coventry is still the north), &tc.

getting a very dodgy deflected handball goal with the last touch has left me hoarse, irritated my neighbours, pissed my girlfriend off and inspired me to get very drunk indeed and by christ i fucking love it. fuck the lot of yous, in a year of brexit and a trump presidency lovely old arsene winning a quadruple is the only acceptable moral alternative. #wenger2017