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    #51
    The Refereeing Thread

    In rugby league (at least in Australia) you regularly see players who have been taken off for a few minutes pedalling exercise bikes as they wait to come back on

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      #52
      The Refereeing Thread

      Not uncommon in Union, either.

      The NCAA substitution rules (which now allow for a single re-entry of a subbed player) are bizarre, but I've never heard anyone complain that subbed players aren't fit to return.

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        #53
        The Refereeing Thread

        Letter to IFAB, Part Two: "Why should a team that suffers an injury after using all its substitutes be penalised by playing a man short?"

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          #54
          The Refereeing Thread

          "Hello! It's me again," as Jeremy Corbyn's column in Private Eye always begins. Anyway, here's Letter to IFAB Part 3, proposing that players can lift one leg off the ground at throw-ins, mainly because they do it anyway.

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            #55
            The Refereeing Thread

            imp wrote: Letter to IFAB, Part Two: "Why should a team that suffers an injury after using all its substitutes be penalised by playing a man short?"
            Because teams/players will fake injury to facilitate a fourth sub. I see in your letter, linked, that you're proposing a fourth sub (as in a returning subbed off player) once all 3 regular subs have been used, in which case plenty of teams will use it as a de facto fourth sub to waste time or for tactical reasons. It'd do little to address the issue above of an team suffering an injury after all subs used. Any additional subs allowed just favours the big teams with their big expensive benches.

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              #56
              The Refereeing Thread

              I tend to view potential law changes with the cynicism of how professional teams would manipulate the change to suit their (usually negative) ends. On the fourth substitute proposal, while you are saying that the reason for the change is to allow teams to substitute an injured player once all substitutes have been used, in fact the wording makes no reference to players being injured so could be used tactically as you have alluded. So the question is really whether we want to go down that route. For example, a team trailing in a vital game where they require a point could substitute a defender for a more attacking player then, if successful in getting an equaliser, could then swap them back. Other situations might apply. So the question, really, is whether we want to allow that extra tactical 'flexibility'.

              As for throw-ins, I agree. Though it's always amusing when you see highly-paid professionals getting caught out because they don't know the laws. It needs to be changed in a way that it doesn't give a huge advantage to the thrower's team however. Incidentally, I saw the optional kick-in experimental change in action once. The away team's tactic whenever they got a throw-in in their opponents' half was to 'hoof it to big Cliff Hercules'.

              Comment


                #57
                The Refereeing Thread

                You could allow a fourth substitute/returning player anyway, regardless of injuries, just to prevent endless discussions about whether or not player A who went off really was injured. And you're right, managers would exploit it. A way around that would be to add a statutory 30 seconds of added time for every substitution. So if both teams took advantage of all four subs, then there'd be at least four minutes of added time.

                Which brings us on to... added time - I know it's romantic and all, and has been part of the game's fabric forever and ever, but it's arbitrary and unfair, and really there's no reason not to have a time-keeper. That way, the clock can be stopped at substitutions and injuries and managers really do have no incentive to waste time. Works in the US college game fine. And I would rather sit out those agonizing seconds when my team's a goal up by being able to look at the clock and count down, rather than wait on the whim of the referee - who, after all, might have been intimidated before the kick-off by some authoritarian, Ferg-like wanker knocking on his changing room door. Or who is playing on and on just because the team of J Barton, for example, is 1-0 up, but J Barton's been behaving like a twat all afternoon.

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                  #58
                  The Refereeing Thread

                  Agree that stoppage time is a quite ridiculous concept. It's nearly always 3 minutes anyway. Why add time for injuries/subs but not for goal kicks/throws? The problem I have with playing, say, 35 full minutes each way with the clock stopped for every stoppage is it'd just encourage the Mourinho's of this world to break up play even more. Taking 60 seconds over a throw? So what, the clock is stopped. And why are you trying to get a not-very-seriously-injured player off the pitch ref? Sure he's not even running the clock down!

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                    #59
                    The Refereeing Thread

                    Doesn't rugby get around that by playing on while physios attend to the injury.

                    Don't see why that can't be brought into football now, to be honest. If players really are injured, then they can be treated, otherwise they'll be back on their feet in no time, especially if in a situation where they are playing people onside.

                    No doubt Mourinho would tell his forwards to hurt defenders near their 6 yard box or something to get around it though.

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                      #60
                      The Refereeing Thread

                      Final part of my thrilling letter to IFAB - three areas where the game would possibly benefit from the introduction of a 35-yard line. I think it's worth a discussion or some experimentation at the very least. Though I appreciate that the world has more pressing concerns right now.

                      Back to reffing a week on Thursday at last. Have missed it more than during any other break, but that might be because I'm enjoying writing about it as much as the actual refereeing.

                      Comment


                        #61
                        The Refereeing Thread

                        On Saturday morning I got to referee Eintracht Frankfurt's U16 team - was half-expecting to see Big Boobs and FIRE! with Mad Dai on the touchline. It was only a friendly, but the level of discipline was impressive - not a single moan or complaint of any kind throughout the whole game. No doubt that'll all change if any of them go on to become professionals.

                        Then on Sunday, this not-so-friendly. Tried to be lenient at first because it wasn't a competitive game, but afterwards thought I should probably have shown a yellow card in the first five minutes. But you think, "Ah, it's just a friendly, they'll all settle down."

                        Comment


                          #62
                          The Refereeing Thread

                          imp wrote: Final part of my thrilling letter to IFAB - three areas where the game would possibly benefit from the introduction of a 35-yard line. I think it's worth a discussion or some experimentation at the very least. Though I appreciate that the world has more pressing concerns right now.

                          Back to reffing a week on Thursday at last. Have missed it more than during any other break, but that might be because I'm enjoying writing about it as much as the actual refereeing.
                          Encroachment at penalties is endemic and almost impossible to patrol. I think I've seen a retake once, when an attacker was level with the taker when the penalty was struck and the howls of anguish would have you believe the referee had just ripped the head off the striker and shat down the hole.

                          This one seems simple to resolve though, taking imp's 35 yard line and the ref's whistle or the rugby rule that other players can start moving when the taker starts moving. 35 yards does seem like it'd quite often give the taker a second bit of the cherry following a save though.

                          Comment


                            #63
                            The Refereeing Thread

                            There is a brilliant YouTube clip when some referee demands a retake on the first go for encroachment, and then feels duty-bound to call all other such offences until the two teams abide by the laws. It's nearly into double figures before they manage one he is satisfied with.

                            The most recent esoteric officiating issue I've seen was more of a You Are The League Committee than a You Are The Ref situation, because I think the refs possible courses of action were very limited. It's a situation very much at the amateur level of sport.

                            Scenario:
                            Home team are on the edge of the promotion picture (in their own minds); away side are in lower mid-table but comfortably safe from the drop. Both sides are the reserve team of their club, but not the lowest side that club fields; each has another, lower, team also playing on the same day.
                            The away club is having a terrible week for availability. They send a bare XI along, no subs and no goalkeeper. They don't even have a different coloured shirt or gloves. They say they are simply going to play with 11 outfielders, as no-one wants to go in goal.
                            Play starts, the away side are swiftly on the back foot. Approaching half-time the score is 5-0, including a penalty and an own goal. The enthusiasm of the away side, never all that high, is visibly dropping.
                            Then two players run into each other, the away one taking a whack to the bonce. Play is halted, ice is provide and player, once upright again, heads to the sideline for a few minutes to clear their head, before coming back to make sure their team isn't playing with just 10.
                            Then, in the last minute of the half, another away player takes a full pace shot at point blank range into the inside of the knee. Another hiatus, more ice, and this time the player won't be playing on. However, no ambulance is required, there is no break, just swelling.
                            The ref calls half-time a few seconds early during the second injury break. However soon after doing so the away captain approaches him, saying they are going to forfeit the game. They simply no longer want to play on.
                            The home side are nonplussed. The league's conceded game score is 3-0*, i.e. less than they already have with another half to go against a 10-man (9-and-a-half man) goalkeeperless side. Goal difference in the promotion race is mentioned, the away side responding 'You can call it 10-0 if you like' or words to that effect. It is clear that the away side is not for budging, with the home skipper reluctantly accepting this.

                            What, as ref, do you do?

                            * - not just 3-0, but also three points deducted for teams that fail to fulfil a fixture. And, importantly, awarding any matches of lower sides from the same club on the same weekend 3-0 against as well.

                            Comment


                              #64
                              The Refereeing Thread

                              It's against the laws to play the game without a goalkeeper, so it wouldn't happen. If the referee allowed it, he'd probably be suspended by his FA for idiocy.

                              Comment


                                #65
                                The Refereeing Thread

                                That must be a recent change. I'm sure I remember seeing highlights of a Ligue 1 team not picking a 'keeper a few of seasons ago (in protest about their regular 'keeper getting a red card in the previous match). Or maybe they did have an outfielder in a 'keepers kit and just told him not to use his hands.

                                However, as with most of my other examples, this was actually a Hockey game, where you can play without a goalie.

                                Comment


                                  #66
                                  The Refereeing Thread

                                  That's been a law as long as I've been a ref (eight years) at the very least. Presumably to stop shenanigans like the scenario you described, and also there's the question of what to do at a penalty kick.

                                  Nothing to do with reffing, but your scenario reminds me of when I was at Brum Uni - they ran four teams (fourth XI played in a Wednesday afternoon works league, which was all the fun you can imagine when students came up against actual workers), but only three at weekends. One weekend it became clear there were lots of players missing, so in order for the third team to get a result, the second XI was sacrificed - that is, while the Thirds fielded a strong side, including some second team players, the Second XI was a mishmash of marginal third teamers, fourth teamers and ringers, and they got slaughtered. I thought it was a bit rum at the time, but as I was away for the weekend I was just relieved that I'd avoided it - I'd been asked to turn out for the 'seconds'.

                                  Comment


                                    #67
                                    The Refereeing Thread

                                    I'm not sure this is the place for discussing individual referees but if it wasn't I'd have to start my own 'Clattenburg gets Riyal' thread or something. Anyroad, Clattenburg's off to Saudi Arabia.

                                    Comment


                                      #68
                                      The Refereeing Thread

                                      That seems a really odd one, especially during the middle of the season.

                                      Whatever beef he has with the FA, he would no longer be doing CL games and internationals. Seems an odd thing to give up even for a lot of Saudi money.

                                      Comment


                                        #69
                                        The Refereeing Thread

                                        I'd bugger off to Saudi too if I'd had a game like he did at Arsenal-Hull last weekend. Presumably the salary is to the power of 10 compared with his current one.

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                                          #70
                                          The Refereeing Thread

                                          This week I compare making offside decisions without linesmen to being given the choice of taking it up the arse or in the mouth.

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                                            #71
                                            The Refereeing Thread

                                            Then on Sunday, I really, really tried not to send a player off, but he wasn't having it.

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                                              #72
                                              The Refereeing Thread

                                              Thanks for the feedback, Mr. Bitter-Grape Sucking, Sneaky-Foul Addicted, Like-A-Child-Losing, Twatty Number 5: How I cope with criticism.

                                              Plus, big debate in Germany following Lars Stindl's accidental handball goal for Mönchengladbach last weekend. Kicker wrote a piece saying the solution is to just make all handballs illegal. Prompting readers to point out how many of our model sporting pros would immediately try to aim for a defender's arm the minute they had the ball in or close to the penalty area.

                                              Comment


                                                #73
                                                The Refereeing Thread

                                                I'm surprised there seems to be general agreement that the Stindl handball was accidental. The game was on in the pub and it looked fairly deliberate to me. Having said that, I only saw it at the time with a couple of replays, and haven't seen it since.

                                                Comment


                                                  #74
                                                  The Refereeing Thread

                                                  Without the ability to mind-read, 'intent' in the handball law is always going to be problematic. More problematic still, though, is that no one can come up with a workable alternative.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #75
                                                    The Refereeing Thread

                                                    Yesterday was something new - instead of having a row with a player, a coach or a spectator, I had one with the groundsman.

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