Originally posted by Janik
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The Refereeing Thread
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Originally posted by HORN View PostIf I could turn back time I'd stop reading after paragraph 4, with a big smile on my face, and my blood pressure normal.
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- Mar 2008
- 1877
- Essex
- Super Spurs; SF Giants; Philadelphia Eagles; Saracens; Middlesex CCC
- Bourbon obviously
Originally posted by imp View PostI always thought that there was a zero tolerance for dissent in rugby, and that even the slightest complaint to the referee meant a yellow card or punishment of some kind (not quite sure how it works in rugby). Disappointing to hear that it's changing in that sport too. At the local rugby club in my home town (Market Rasen & Louth, which ran four teams, and maybe still does) it was ex-players who usually did the reffing.
Back to football - I wrote a piece in WSC sometime in the last year about playing in the Southern Olympian League in the early 90s, and how there was never any dissent, and rarely any cards. But apparently that Corinthian-influenced atmosphere is changing now too because the leagues thrive on the revenue they get from fining players.
I ref these kids in their teens constantly moaning, and riling and fouling each other, and find it hard to remember a single occasion in 35 years of playing that I set out to deliberately foul someone. Yet when you yellow card them,they act like you've encroached on their civil fucking rights.
edit: @Steveeeee - thank you.
For the record I am a Level 5 referee, I get top-ish divisions of Amateur football, and 2 months ago became the Chief Exec of the County FA. I like reading stuff like this as I have an opportunity to do something about it (in fact in a month's time I have a 50% chance of becoming the FA rep and so can try to enact change at the national level.
The trial of sin bins for dissent has gone very well, so much so that it will become mandatory in 19/20. Seems to be having an effect here, simply as teams are finding goals are being scored during the sin bin periods.
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You lads make me almost weepy. Thank you. Genuinely. Right now it's really, really helpful to me to read comments like that.
@JtS - my God, when did we last hear from you? I played for Nottsborough FC in the SOL, but they moved to the SAL in the mid- to late 90s. They're still going - in fact they're having a 30-year anniversary dinner in June, but unfortunately I can't make it. Anyway, I think the sin-bin for dissent should absolutely be tried out and then implemented. I am absolutely certain it would be effective.
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I'll join in with the imp love. Great if slightly depressing read. As a player I always tried to be courteous to the poor voluntary refs and as a coach I try to do the same and encourage it in the kids. Even from an incredibly cynical point of view being friendly with the refs who are going to be reffing my kids for the next 8 years is surely an investment. I reckon a quick polite 'that's three times he's been held back John' is more likely to have an effect that screaming and swearing. Five refereed games down and no major issues here, but the games have been very clean generally. One incident I enjoyed when one of our players kicked the ball away after conceding a free the ref sent him to bring it back. Then I subbed him off. (Rolling subs, but he got the mesasge). Quite sad the shock and relief on a ref's face when I shake hands at full time and say well done ref, you handled that well.Last edited by seand; 24-04-2018, 11:44.
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- Mar 2008
- 1877
- Essex
- Super Spurs; SF Giants; Philadelphia Eagles; Saracens; Middlesex CCC
- Bourbon obviously
Originally posted by imp View PostYou lads make me almost weepy. Thank you. Genuinely. Right now it's really, really helpful to me to read comments like that.
@JtS - my God, when did we last hear from you? I played for Nottsborough FC in the SOL, but they moved to the SAL in the mid- to late 90s. They're still going - in fact they're having a 30-year anniversary dinner in June, but unfortunately I can't make it. Anyway, I think the sin-bin for dissent should absolutely be tried out and then implemented. I am absolutely certain it would be effective.
Dissent sin bins look like they'll become mandatory in step 7 and below the season after next.
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I’m in the minority but I don’t like Janik’s obstruction proposal. Dare I say it sounds like something from rugby (shudder)- it’s a bit too convoluted and unnatural. I don’t think it’s enough of an issue that it specifically needs to be addressed, I don’t see how it’d be workable and it doesn’t address shepherding the ball out for a throw/goal kick as the ball will move 2 metres in that case anyway. Measuring 2 metres is an issue. All distance measurements in football are done while the ball is dead, i.e. there are pitch markings or the ref steps out 10 yards for a free. Does it have to be 2 metres distance from the starting point? What if I dribble three metres in a semi-circle around an opponent, or nutmeg my opponent twice ultimately returning to the point I started at? Seems harsh to punish that. A physically strong forward could bustle his way 2 yards up and down the touchline anyway. And three second seems very short. If I chase a ball into the corner and a strong defender chases me down and makes the decision to ‘stands me up’ instead of tackling me, I suffer under the proposed rule because my opponent chooses not to engage. Theoretically a keeper on the ball, 30 metres from the nearest opponent who is not bothering to press the keeper, could be punished for surveying the pitch for three seconds before picking a pass (obviously it’d be easy for the keeper to push the ball 2 metres but what if he only moves the ball 1.5 metres in 3 seconds?) Retaining possession, even at the corner flag is a skill in itself, and anyway trying to protect the ball at the corner flag rarely if ever works as it’s almost impossible once a second opponent arrives.
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Guardian piece on Clive Thomas, specifically the famous non-goal at the 78 World Cup.
For once it's worth breaking the "never read comments" rule, there are some good anecdotes in there. Also, a photo of Trevor Brooking looking furious, which is a collector's item.
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I avoided getting abused last weekend by virtue of a sick-note for a swollen knee that curtailed me from walking, let alone keeping up with the finely honed athletes of Frankfurt's amateur leagues. Instead, here's a discussion about how video evidence is going to make the offside law look even more absurd, and how a short story narrated by a pernickety linesman disallowing the greatest goal of all time now suddenly seems pertinent.
Edit @Derek: I recognise that argument, and have to admit that I cheer mightily when it's my own team running the clock down in this manner.Last edited by imp; 03-05-2018, 10:53.
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I mentioned above that my daughter passed her referee's course and had started to follow in her brother's footsteps on the junior circuit. She hasn't done an awful lot since, but she's refereed at a couple of tournaments and is doing another one this weekend - this time of year is good for that sort of thing as there are lots of end of season tournaments organised by clubs, and some weekend ones at the somewhat rundown resort of Silloth on the Cumbrian Riviera. So she's getting some game time under her belt at least. She was offered a place on the line for a County Cup final but the logistics meant she couldn't get there, which she was relieved about really as she hasn't done any line work and didn't want to start at a cup final.
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Good to hear your daughter is 'enjoying' her time as a ref WFD (is enjoying the right word?). I empathise with her relief about the Cup Final, being in the middle as opposed to on the line are 2 totally different dynamics and require differing skills and processes. I am running a short assistant ref training session this weekend, in advance of an U-20 tournament next week, and am frantically brushing up on roles, responsibilities and teamwork requirements as far as being an A/R are involved!
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Not a very exciting column this week - a team that were complete bastards a year ago have gone all nice and family-friendly. Very enjoyable afternoon for me, though, in the main.
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Needless to say, last week's quiet match was a false dawn. I thought Saturday's rowdy U15 game would be the main topic of my column, but it was comprehensively dwarfed by the unremitting arseholery of one of the team's I reffed on Sunday.
The fun thing about these games is writing up detailed disciplinary reports in German (they have to be submitted within 24 hours if you've shown a straight red card). It takes me about an hour and a half on average, sometimes longer. When that happens, one game takes up 6-7 hours out of your day. Not that I'm complaining. More like sitting at my desk with my head in my hands.
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https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/999610999757041664
I'd like to think the majority of the pursuers were coming to this poor sods assistance.
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Originally posted by The Red Max View Posthttps://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/999610999757041664
I'd like to think the majority of the pursuers were coming to this poor sods assistance.
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This weekend - Fergie time in the U7 league.
My assistant coach turned to me and said, "He's just going to keep the clock running until they equalise, isn't he?" I nodded, and we both laughed. But I was actually feeling dead inside.
Is it common for anyone else on here to regularly think about renouncing football for good? Just to stop paying attention, 100%, from one day to the next to any kind of football at all, at any level? Is that possible?
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Well, the final weekend of the season, and thanks to yet another fucking arsehole, the summer break can't come quickly enough.
Frau imp ventured on Saturday, "Maybe it's you" (thanks for the support there, my love), Maybe it is. In the same way I was often known in Lincolnshire in the late 1970s as "fookin' Plenderleith" for being a gobby, sarcastic little twat, I somehow rub people up the wrong way on the football fields of Frankfurt in the second decade of the 21st century by asking them to calm down and showing them yellow cards. I don't get my head kicked in quite so often now, though.
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