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    A manager in Dublin just got banned for 18 months for assaulting a ref.... In the Metropolitan Girls League (for u8 to u16 girls )

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      Originally posted by seand View Post
      A manager in Dublin just got banned for 18 months for assaulting a ref.... In the Metropolitan Girls League (for u8 to u16 girls )
      Too fucking lenient. Make it life. With 500 hours community service going round clubs and schools giving a lecture telling them why he's been banned and why he now feels like such a twat.

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        Great read as ever imp ... I take it the "time penalty" is a sin-bin? Is this just for youth games?

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          Yes - five minutes sin-bin instead of a second yellow. Only a third yellow card offence becomes a red card. Good rule for U15 and under, fucking stupid rule for U17-19 that is serially abused by unscrupulous coaches.

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            Because I have been immersed in South American continental club football during the past few weeks, I have been treated to and/or annoyed by a range of time wasting tactics. Some of those tactics I think are kind of amusing. But there are others that I think refs could easily undo if they were a bit more focused on managing the time. Obviously imp is leading the commentary in this thread from the standpoint of refs (and perhaps others--apologies by just focusing on imp's posts if that is the case). With that said, I am wondering if something like this would work (i.e., refs could do this and not face some level of punishment from a refereeing authority/admin body):

            A player claims to be hurt late in the match. The ref says to all players gathering around (some to complain about time wasting and some to distract the ref and some to ask for a card related to the supposed injury inflicted on the time waster): I am stopping my watch during the time it takes to get this player off the pitch *and* the amount of time it takes to get the player off the pitch will also be the amount of time I will wait until that player can come back on the pitch. Obviously the caveat would be a player who is truly injured but it is obvious when someone is time wasting. Could a ref do this, imp? If so, why do refs not do this (the this being making a player wait that same length of time before she or he can return to the pitch)? I think such a move would radically cut down on time wasting, or until keepers start feigning more injuries.

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              Not a bad idea, but it would have to be enshrined in the laws. Although you can just ignore the miraculously recovered player waving to come back on the field, causing him, his coach and his fellow players to start yelling at you (which, as you know, we get enough of anyway).

              You could make it simpler by having a rule stating that any player leaving the field for an injury after the 85th. minute must either be subbed out or, if all subs have been used, can not return to the field of play (or can only return in extra-time, if it's a cup tie).

              What I hate even more is the corner flag 'game management' thing. Again, though, really hard to legislate. I've thought about a triangular area at each corner of the field. After the 80th. minute, the ball can not remain in this area for more than 5 seconds, and if it does there's an indirect free-kick to the team not in possession - ball must be played out of the triangle. But then that's just another stoppage and it'd be all too messy to implement.

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                Handball was having this problem, though not to football's extent as the clock would be stopped when a ref signaled an injury, but it was thought to be used tactically. So now if you come off due to injury rather than a normal rolling sub you can't return to the game until there have been three changes of possession.

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                  Oh, that reminds me of an incident in the recent handball Euros (or was it World Cup?), when Germany beat Slovenia. It came down to a time-wasting infringement by the Slovenians being committed in the last 30 seconds of the game, which was a red card and a penalty throw, thanks to which Germany then won the game. The same infringement prior to the last 30 seconds is a yellow card or two-minute sin-binning. Have been meaning to do a piece about transferring something similar to football.

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                    The problem with keeping a player off for the same amount of time he was treated is you'll end up rushing genuine minor/moderate injuries. It encourages players to run off the pitch on a twisted ankle. And if I'm a mourinho type cnut am I going to spend 3 minutes making sure my centre half isn't concussed knowing he'll miss three minutes even if it turns out he's okay, or drag him off the pitch so I can get him straight back in?

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                      imp, it was the Euros. One of the notable things was that the infringement happened on the centre spot but it was still punished by a 7m throw. The correct decision but a lot of angst from my E European friends on facebook about the refs being favorable to Germany.

                      It was a bloody stupid thing to do as Germany only had enough time to shoot from halfway which would never have gone in.
                      Last edited by Levin; 06-03-2018, 10:36.

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                        imp:
                        If, after missing a sitter, I start beating myself up in frustration, would you send me off for violent conduct?

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                          I would first encourage members of the crowd to shoot cellphone footage. My favourite thing about refereeing is when some twat who's been moaning at me all afternoon misses a sitter and I'm giving it my inner, "HA! HA! HA!" And wondering if I can run past him and whisper, "I suppose that was my fault too, eh, ya useless cunt."

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                            Originally posted by imp View Post
                            And wondering if I can run past him and whisper, "I suppose that was my fault too, eh, ya useless cunt."
                            During a game I was playing in about 30 years ago, the referee pulled me up for three fouls within about five minutes, none of which I thought were fouls. I didn't get chopsy (I've never talked back to a referee in 40-odd years of playing), but there was still something about me he didn't like. After the fourth (non-) foul, he said to me, "Ugliest-looking cunt in Cowdenbeath, you are."

                            To this day, I don't know what he meant. We weren't playing in Cowdenbeath, nor have I ever been there.

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                              Are players seriously wasting time in park football? Christ.

                              Great blog by the way. I'm ploughing my way through it in lieu of doing work.

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                                I think this ref must have had a bad day.

                                https://www.essexlive.news/sport/foo...ffield-1308066

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                                  I thought asking for a player's name had disappeared with the advent of squad numbers. You write down the number and match it to the team-sheet after the game for the disciplinary report - that's the case here all the way down to U13 games. I sniff an apocryphal tale hatched up by the player, the ref and the hack. Or possibly just by the hack.

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                                    Originally posted by seand View Post
                                    The problem with keeping a player off for the same amount of time he was treated is you'll end up rushing genuine minor/moderate injuries. It encourages players to run off the pitch on a twisted ankle. And if I'm a mourinho type cnut am I going to spend 3 minutes making sure my centre half isn't concussed knowing he'll miss three minutes even if it turns out he's okay, or drag him off the pitch so I can get him straight back in?
                                    This makes sense, but the problem for me (and hence the original question) is that if a player is treated on the field for 3-4 minutes, for example, then I can't see how that total time has fixed everything. If that player is ready to come back on the pitch in 20 seconds then he is either faking injury to waste time or he is coming back on before he should. Either way, the ref stating a policy to both coaches and both captains before the kick-off that this is how it is going to go because the ref wants to avoid time wasting and wants to insure the safety of the player would make sense.

                                    To stick with the time wasting theme, I don't know how many of you saw this clip. I assume I'm the only fool who watched the game live. But once El Nacional tied the game and were set to advance, the keeper began a steady stream of time wasting strategies. The ref finally carded him as you will see in the clip but he refused to look at the ref (likely in an effort to waste even more time) and then brought the ref into the act.
                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkVoig6kz7c

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                                      My daughter (15) continued her fledgling refereeing career this morning, refereeing a game in a blizzard in Aspatria (some posters can picture this clearly, I'm sure). She texted me to say to start running a bath, and when she got in and I asked her how the game went, her only reply was "my legs went blue" before she disappeared upstairs.

                                      I've eventually got more detail out of her, she went expecting to do an under 12s and got switched to an under 14s. She said she got a lot of grief from the players on offside decisions, and this is a big bugbear of mine from when my son refereed - expecting referees to unfailingly judge offsides without assistants. However she said the managers were both nice and all the parents were nice, which is welcome and something of a surprise.

                                      She's got another tournament next weekend, they are the big payers so she's looking forward to it.

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                                        Ahh the old 'no assistants, but still expected to give offside decisions' problem. As you will expect, this is common in youth games and pub leagues where either the teams can't/don't/won't provide assistants, or if they do, they are uninterested, don't keep up with the second last defender, or is a cheating bastard. If I may be so bold as to offer some advice to your daughter WFD, in cases like this with no assistants, I always tell the captains/coaches at the start that, as it is physically impossible for me to be in line with the second last defender at every attack, I will only be penalizing offsides if they are blatantly obvious given the angle I am viewing them at. Therefore, I would suggest telling your defenders that if they wish to play a high line they run the risk of being caught out, despite my best endeavours to judge, and that any complaining will be deemed dissent. So, when they start complaining about you not giving an offside, first warn them, then yellow card the next one to moan, they will soon get the message (hopefully) and shut up. If you have pre-warned the coach/captain, they can have no complaints.

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                                          Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View Post
                                          My daughter (15) continued her fledgling refereeing career this morning, refereeing a game in a blizzard in Aspatria (some posters can picture this clearly, I'm sure).
                                          Given that I once played in a blizzard, in Silloth of all places, she has my sympathy. Hope her circulation is back to normal.

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                                            Originally posted by Bermuda Iron View Post
                                            Ahh the old 'no assistants, but still expected to give offside decisions' problem. As you will expect, this is common in youth games and pub leagues where either the teams can't/don't/won't provide assistants, or if they do, they are uninterested, don't keep up with the second last defender, or is a cheating bastard. If I may be so bold as to offer some advice to your daughter WFD, in cases like this with no assistants, I always tell the captains/coaches at the start that, as it is physically impossible for me to be in line with the second last defender at every attack, I will only be penalizing offsides if they are blatantly obvious given the angle I am viewing them at. Therefore, I would suggest telling your defenders that if they wish to play a high line they run the risk of being caught out, despite my best endeavours to judge, and that any complaining will be deemed dissent. So, when they start complaining about you not giving an offside, first warn them, then yellow card the next one to moan, they will soon get the message (hopefully) and shut up. If you have pre-warned the coach/captain, they can have no complaints.
                                            'Don't moan about offside decisions' has become the crux of my pre-match mantra as well. It's definitely worth the effort as I'm fairly sure that whining levels have subsided since I started holding forth for 30 seconds or so.

                                            I wish continued best of luck to WFD's daughter - really hope she's enjoying it and will keep it up.

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                                              This is so unsuprising.

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                                                As unsurprising as one of my fellow refs in Frankfurt being assaulted by a player during a U17 game the week before last. As a result, we withdrew our services from all the weekend's 150 youth games in the city (U11-U19). Clubs were told by the referees' association to have parents and coaches ref their games. Which I did when it came to my U15 team's game. Didn't turn out well. Part of a whole weekend of anger and disappointment that you can read about here. (Hadn't updated blog for a while as several games got cancelled due to snow, then an unscheduled dash to the UK, then a trip to China.)

                                                The file marked 'Reasons to quit' gets fatter every week.

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                                                  Originally posted by imp View Post
                                                  What I hate even more is the corner flag 'game management' thing. Again, though, really hard to legislate. I've thought about a triangular area at each corner of the field. After the 80th. minute, the ball can not remain in this area for more than 5 seconds, and if it does there's an indirect free-kick to the team not in possession - ball must be played out of the triangle. But then that's just another stoppage and it'd be all too messy to implement.
                                                  Another slow response, but I've got an idea which I think would work, and also wouldn't need extra pitch markings or different rules for the last five minutes of the game or similar. It wouldn't even need a new law of the game, just the tweaking of an existing one - obstruction. The way Football currently uses this allows players to shield the ball, as obstruction can only happen if neither player is within playing distance of the ball. So the player with the ball at his feet by the corner flag can't obstruct as he is within playing distance (see also blocking an opponent to let the ball run out for a goalkick).

                                                  My tweak would be a combination of the obstruction rule as used in Hockey with the 3 seconds one from Basketball - an obstruction can occur between two players off the ball (as now) or if a player within playing distance of the ball is not attempting to significantly advance the play. 'Significantly advance the play' would be interpreted as having moved the ball less than 2m over the space of 3 seconds or longer (2m to be the distance from original position of ball when play stopped being 'advanced', and not cumulatively as otherwise rolling the ball about under a foot could obviate the rule). That rejig would mean that after 3 seconds standing by the corner flag, the player in possession will commit an offence if he positions himself such to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction by an opponent attempting to get to the ball.

                                                  That shouldn't affect the legitimate uses of shielding and upper body strength in the game, as three seconds is longer than players will keep the ball essentially stationary in the general flow of play. It will mostly* have been laid off to a teammate before the rule kicks in. But it will mean a player going to the corner flag can only eat up three seconds of the game before he has to either let an opponent have it or conceded a free-kick.
                                                  * - I guess there are a few times a shield in the middle of the park does last longer in the general flow, but when it happens it tends to be a flash-point as the player being held off gets rather frustrated at being manhandled and prevented from playing. So the rare decisions of this type would actually help the game rather than hinder.

                                                  Oh, and if a team tries to get clever by having a second player off the ball acts as another shield so discounting the '3 second rule' (as I'm sure it would get called), well that is already obstruction as the current rules stand. The second player would not be within playing distance and neither would his opponent be. Two players tag-teaming to try and extend the period would also quickly lead to a free-kick under the current rules.
                                                  Last edited by Janik; 23-04-2018, 10:11.

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                                                    Originally posted by imp View Post
                                                    Part of a whole weekend of anger and disappointment that you can read about here.
                                                    If I could turn back time I'd stop reading after paragraph 4, with a big smile on my face, and my blood pressure normal.

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