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    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
    Is there just a gentlemans' agreement at some clubs about applying this? I'm thinking about Liverpool in particular, who attack the Kop end in the second half in way more than 75% of games (as they would if even half of opponents chose that option having won the toss).
    This is true for many clubs in Spain; Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atlético Madrid among others, although the latter somewhat confusingly normally choose to attack the Frente Atlético end in the first half.

    I reckon the ends have usually been decided before the matches start and that the toss is simply for ceremonial purposes.

    Comment


      You'll have to forgive the lack of concrete data on this question, due to the fact that I saw it while zapping through Tuesday evening's CL matches. I think it was Ajax - Benfica. I believe it was Ajax who had a free kick near the edge of the area. They put two players on the end on the Benfica wall. These two players then lifted their arms above their heads, presumably to parcially block the view of the keeper. The referee refused to allow the free kick to be taken until they had taken their arms down, which they did.

      But what kind of offence was being committed, if any? You're not obstructing an opponent, and presumably you can do what you want with your arms unless it's the aforementioned obstruction, other foul play, handball etc.

      I could easily have imagined all this given that I was involved in various activities at the same time, thus proving that multi-tasking is indeed a myth.

      Comment


        The NHL had to put in an explicit rule about intentionally blocking the view of the goalie to deal with this, though I would think that it could rather easily be seen as “unsporting behaviour”, which is a yellow card offense under Law 12.

        Comment


          Back out on the field this past weekend for two games, which were thankfully quiet, and my knees pretty much held up. And (not for the first time - don't know why German spectators are fixated on this), it was my footwear that got the compliments.

          Comment


            Ref in Ireland hospitalised with broken jaw
            https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...feree-assault/

            This comes the week after the Dublin District Schoolboys League issued dire warnings about parents/spectators behaviour
            https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...er-884514.html

            I know we struggle for referee numbers in the NDSL too with a hanfdul of games not played this weekend due to lack of referees- is it any wonder though?

            Comment


              Originally posted by seand View Post
              Ref in Ireland hospitalised with broken jaw
              https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...feree-assault/

              This comes the week after the Dublin District Schoolboys League issued dire warnings about parents/spectators behaviour
              https://www.irishexaminer.com/breaki...er-884514.html

              I know we struggle for referee numbers in the NDSL too with a hanfdul of games not played this weekend due to lack of referees- is it any wonder though?
              Absolutely disgraceful. Sadly the problem isn't a new one, although I've never seen anything nearly that bad.

              Over 30 years ago, I attended a General Meeting of amateur football teams in Aberdeen. The rule for a general meeting was that all clubs had to attend and had to send one representative Bizarrely on the agenda (and not on some disciplinary meeting agenda) was an appeal by some psycho nutter to a sine die banning. Even more bizarrely, the lifetime ban was overturned by the huge numbers of zoomers who outnumbered the attendees who had more than one brain cell. Three items later on the general meeting agenda, was an item which was dealing with the chronic shortage of match officials. Somehow the zoomers could not make the connection between overturning a psycho's life time ban and the problem of shortage of officials.

              Comment


                A young ref got badly attacked in Italy this weekend as well.

                In a transparent attempt to generate blog traffic, this week's listicle/column looks at 10 things amateur refs hate to see or hear, inspired by another weekend of whining players and a pair of particularly obnoxious coaches (on a boys U14 team that got hammered 11-2 by a U13 team playing quick, sleek football, and whose players didn't moan once).

                In a Soccer America column last week, I argued the case for making video refs a permanent thing.

                Comment


                  Three week ban for ref who resorted to rock, paper, scissors after forgetting to take a coin out with him.

                  Comment


                    The punishment seems harsh as it's pedantic, petty and unsupportive of referees. As if it really matters how the choice of ends was randomised? It wouldn't affect the sport in the slightest if the rules allowed a little flexibility on how refs went about this (technically it would be infringing the same rules if the ref tossed a token rather than a coin, for example). On the other hand, it feels notable that it happened in a Women's game. It's lackadaisical and unprofessional.

                    Comment


                      I think "Rock, Paper, Scissors" should replace coin-tossing. "Bunny, Rabbit" (known as "Piss-Pott" in Germany) would be even better.

                      Comment


                        In the Catholic Youth League where I used to ref in the US on Friday nights (consisting exclusively of local Catholic schools), I'd ask the four captains - two from each team - if they could tell me why the particular saint their school was named after had been anointed a saint. First one to answer correctly got to choose ends. There was never a single kid who knew why Bartholomew or Jane de Chantal was such a fucking saint. This was purely for my own amusement - I know they'd have no more clue than I did - except that I'd look it up before the game and then tell them.

                        In other youth leagues I'd ask the kids to name the US vice president or something similarly easy. Out of four, there was usually at least one who knew. I should start doing it in my German youth games. "Which post-war novelist wrote The Tin Drum and Dog Years? Can you name at least two members of Faust? Can you name two characters in Faust? Come on, come on, hurry up you ignorant little sods, we need to get this fucking game started."

                        A 21-day suspension for improvising rock, paper, scissors is of course draconian fuckwittery. But I bet that ref won't forget his coin again in a hurry, eh? EH?!

                        Comment


                          imp is not the only one to feel the sanction is way over the top - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46229096

                          Comment


                            Saturday's U17 game was peaceful for 70 minutes (no cards), and then events took a dramatic turn...

                            I'm going to post some questions from my monthly exam later this week. First, because I'm stumped on the answers, and second so you can see what pointless fucking hypothetical game situations I waste my life working out in order to retain my qualification.

                            Comment


                              So, some of those situations in games that might happen once every 100 years for so...

                              Q. The referee blows for the start of the game and is insulted by a player. The ball not has not yet moved. Decision? [Red card, but can the player be replaced? Before the whistle, definitely yes. I would guess that after the whistle, no, because surely the game has started once the whistle blows, not when someone kicks the first ball. Also, would the re-start be a direct free kick where the player was standing? Or just the not yet executed kick-off? Even in my leagues a player would be hard pushed to squeeze in an insult in between the starting whistle and the first touch. What would the insult be? "You're a fucking shit whistle-blower, you bandy-legged cunt!"]
                              A.

                              Q. In a fair fight for the ball between two players, the forward from Team A falls to the ground. The referee lets play continue. In falling, the forward accidentally handles the ball. Now the ref blows the whistle and gives a direct free-kick to team B on the grounds that the forward has created an advantage for himself. Is the decision correct? [Part of my problem with this question is that I'm not really sure what "creating an advantage for yourself" is supposed to mean.]
                              A.

                              Q. A defender takes a throw-in, then one of his team-mates unintentionally touches the ball very lightly with his foot. The goalkeeper picks the ball up with his hands in the penalty area. What do you do? [I don't think either team would moan if you gave an indirect free-kick to the attacking team, but that doesn't mean it's the correct answer. Where and how do you find the correct fucking answer, though? You won't find it in the Laws of the Game or any of its guiding addenda. You can only google some phrases from the question and hope that it appeared in some previous online test of another federation, and that they published the answers too.]
                              A.

                              Q. A defender takes a goal-kick and passes to his goalkeeper, who's outside the penalty area. he controls it with his foot, dribbling it into the penalty area, where he picks it up in his hands. Decision? [Instinctively, I think it's okay - surely doesn't count as a pass-back, and I've a feeling I've seen it done. Not actually a bad question - the sort of thing you can see actually happening, and the kind that makes you think and scour the rule-book a bit.]
                              A.

                              Q. Two subbed-out players from the home team get into a fist-fight off the field of play, just as the home goalkeeper has possession of the ball, in his hands, in his own penalty area. The referee interrupts play. Decision? [Obviously two red cards, but what they're after here is the correct re-start - there have been multiple changes to the laws affecting this kind of situation over the past two seasons. Penalty? Indirect free-kick? Drop ball? Off the top of my head, I have no clue.]
                              A.

                              Comment


                                On 2, I'm still firmly in the "deliberate" camp. Accidentally gaining an advantage by handling the ball? Play on, just like with everyone's favourite Thierry Henry in that playoff game.

                                Comment


                                  For me.......
                                  Q1. Red card. Restart play with the untaken kick off. Probably.
                                  Q2. If it was done "accidentally" he didn't he "create" an advantage for himself, so play on. The question is bollox.
                                  Q3. Play on, keeper hasn't "received it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate" and it has not "been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate", so the keeper's ok to pick it up.
                                  Q4. For me it's clearly a backpass... "deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate", indirect free. And a yellow for unsporting behaviour.
                                  Q5. Restart with a dropped ball, I'd have thought (after telling the away team not to contest it)

                                  Comment


                                    And me....

                                    Q1. Red card, restart with kick-off (ball not in play until kicked and clearly moves). Player can be replaced with a named substitute (who in turn can't be replaced - Law 3)
                                    Q2. As seand said. As Law 12 states, handball must be a 'deliberate act'
                                    Q3. It's in Law 12 again - and as seand said. Ball must be 'deliberately kicked by a team-mate' or 'received direct from a throw-in'
                                    Q4. Law 12 again, same as above. It was kicked to the keeper 'deliberately', and I would agree with a yellow card for trying to circumvent the laws (unsporting behaviour the cheating bastard)
                                    Q5. Good one this. Both substituted players are given a red card for violent conduct. Play is restarted with an indirect free-kick on the 'boundary line' closest to where the offence took place (end of Law 12)

                                    I assume seand is a ref?

                                    Comment


                                      I'm not a ref, and have never been trained as such, nor have I looked at the laws in detail. So with regard to question 4, if the ball is live and the defender passes it back to the keeper, who is out of his area, is the keeper not allowed to dribble it back into the area and pick it up?

                                      If he is, which is what I believed, what's the difference between kicking it to the keeper from a dead-ball situation, and him dribbling it back into the box and picking it up?

                                      Comment


                                        I'm going to start posting these every month so seand and Bermuda Iron can save me a couple of hours of trawling around the internet and the laws of the game booklet.

                                        Comment


                                          As a saddo, I will quote the Laws here regarding Q4 if I may. "An indirect free-kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences: (one of which is) 'touches the ball with the hands after' (one of which is) 'it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate'. The Law is clear that if a team-mate deliberately kicks the ball to his/her keeper, they cannot, under any circumstances, 'touch the ball with the hands'. This is the same for a 'back pass' and a pass from a dead-ball situation (free-kick, goal kick etc). Hope this make sense!

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by imp View Post
                                            I'm going to start posting these every month so seand and Bermuda Iron can save me a couple of hours of trawling around the internet and the laws of the game booklet.
                                            Please do, happy to help where I can. For my sins, I am a CONCACAF referee technical instructor, so need to have some knowledge of the Laws, but even more importantly when coaching other officials, need to understand how to interpret them, not always easy.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Bermuda Iron View Post
                                              As a saddo, I will quote the Laws here regarding Q4 if I may. "An indirect free-kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences: (one of which is) 'touches the ball with the hands after' (one of which is) 'it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate'. The Law is clear that if a team-mate deliberately kicks the ball to his/her keeper, they cannot, under any circumstances, 'touch the ball with the hands'. This is the same for a 'back pass' and a pass from a dead-ball situation (free-kick, goal kick etc). Hope this make sense!
                                              It does. Interesting question whether or not this should be a yellow. If it's a deliberate back-pass from open play, it wouldn't be, because you can never tell if the keeper is acting unwittingly - that is, he or she doesn't necessarily think it's a back-pass so they pick it up. In this case, though, as seand says, it's arguably trying to circumvent the law, like when a defender lobs the ball into the air and heads it back into his or her goalkeeper's arms, so it's unsportsmanlike conduct. Unless the keeper claims ignorance of the law - which, given that I as a ref with 10 years experience wasn't sure if it was a foul or not, you could definitely argue too.

                                              Comment


                                                For me, situations such as this one should be sanctioned if it goes against the 'spirit of the game'. If the player(s) are seeking to cheat and con the referee and the other team, then a yellow card would be perfectly appropriate. Some refs will always argue that ignorance of the laws are no excuse.

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by imp View Post
                                                  it's arguably trying to circumvent the law, like when a defender lobs the ball into the air and heads it back into his or her goalkeeper's arms
                                                  Is that not allowed then? I thought that was fine.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Bermuda Iron View Post
                                                    And me....

                                                    Q1. Red card, restart with kick-off (ball not in play until kicked and clearly moves). Player can be replaced with a named substitute (who in turn can't be replaced - Law 3)
                                                    Q2. As seand said. As Law 12 states, handball must be a 'deliberate act'
                                                    Q3. It's in Law 12 again - and as seand said. Ball must be 'deliberately kicked by a team-mate' or 'received direct from a throw-in'
                                                    Q4. Law 12 again, same as above. It was kicked to the keeper 'deliberately', and I would agree with a yellow card for trying to circumvent the laws (unsporting behaviour the cheating bastard)
                                                    Q5. Good one this. Both substituted players are given a red card for violent conduct. Play is restarted with an indirect free-kick on the 'boundary line' closest to where the offence took place (end of Law 12)

                                                    I assume seand is a ref?
                                                    Nah, I'm just a bit of a nerd for such things. I don't know the technicalities of restarting in Q1 and 5 above, but I enjoy the logic and semantics of the others. The laws of the game are incredibly simple, really, and it drives me nuts when paid commentators don't have a basic grasp of the rules.

                                                    Regarding Q4 I'm carding the keeper as they two of them are employing a trick to try and promote a goal-kick to a kick from the hands.

                                                    Comment

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