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    NFL 2017

    Off to a flying start as Colin [strike]Tell[/strike] Kaepernick decides not to salute a man's hat, or something.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37205032

    #2
    NFL 2017

    Original thread.

    Comment


      #3
      NFL 2017

      Gangster Octopus wrote: Original thread.
      Except I assumed (erroneously as it transpired) an "NFL 2016" thread would refer to the just- completed Superbowl season.

      Oh well.

      Mea culpa, as usual.

      Comment


        #4
        NFL 2017

        Guy Profumo wrote: Off to a flying start as Colin [strike]Tell[/strike] Kaepernick decides not to salute a man's hat, or something.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37205032
        It really has been quite the eye opener to read social media regarding this in the past couple days.

        It's pathetic how people talk of the flag and the anthem as symbols of freedom yet when someone chooses to exercise that freedom by not observing the anthem in the traditional fashion they are trashed for doing so. Not standing for the anthem, oh the humanity.

        The truly scary part though is the extent to which the anthem and the flag are synonymous with the military. Inextricable to the point that Colin's actions are interpreted by some as an affront to veterans. I find this line of thinking disturbing because it supposes that soldiers have some sort of monopoly on patriotism and and that implied in any criticism of the US is a disdain for them and their sacrifices. It's a really tacky and transparent way of trying to thwart dissent but alas its gets real traction amongst the simple minded.

        Comment


          #5
          NFL 2017

          It really has been quite the eye opener to read social media regarding this in the past couple days.

          It's pathetic how people talk of the flag and the anthem as symbols of freedom yet when someone chooses to exercise that freedom by not observing the anthem in the traditional fashion they are trashed for doing so. Not standing for the anthem, oh the humanity.

          The truly scary part though is the extent to which the anthem and the flag are synonymous with the military. Inextricable to the point that Colin's actions are interpreted by some as an affront to veterans. I find this line of thinking disturbing because it supposes that soldiers have some sort of monopoly on patriotism and and that implied in any criticism of the US is a disdain for them and their sacrifices. It's a really tacky and transparent way of trying to thwart dissent but alas its gets real traction amongst the simple minded.
          All of this. Well-expressed.

          I don't really want to discuss the response to Kapernick's brave stand because it just makes me sad. People calling him a coward or saying that because he's rich or has a white parent, that he has no standing to speak out about justice. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFS.

          But I'd add that one more sad aspect is the way that these shallow and empty gestures of militarism are not accompanied by any real movement to help veterans or, you know, avoid sending soldiers off to get killed and maimed in the first place.

          So often, "camo jersey day" or whatever is to raise money for private organizations to help veterans. I'm fine with helping veterans - not because they're veterans per se, but because they're in need. But we shouldn't need private organizations passing the hat to help wounded veterans. And some of them are a bit sketchy.

          Really, the NFL is shit. I'm done with it. I'm still sort of interested in college football because it cross-subsidizes the college sports that I really care about. But the NFL has JTS.

          Like, if you read all of Deadspin's series on "Why your team sucks," it's funny at first, but then it's just pathetic and sad, especially when you read the reader contributions. The same themes reappear over and over - such and such player is a thug and or rapist, the GM is an idiot, the fans are stupid rednecks, the fans don't see their own team clearly, the local media is in the tank for the team, the owner is a racist and/or idiot and/or doesn't deserve to be rich, the prices for tickets/beer/parking are outrageous, and the public got fleeced on the stadium deal and/or the stadium we have is terrible. Pretty much all of these apply to every single team in the league. And yet it never occurs to anyone to just not watch.

          Comment


            #6
            NFL 2017

            Guy Profumo wrote:
            Originally posted by Gangster Octopus
            Except I assumed (erroneously as it transpired) an "NFL 2016" thread would refer to the just- completed Superbowl season.

            Oh well.

            Mea culpa, as usual.
            No worries Guy. FWIW the regular season takes place September - December (or just into New Year) each year, with the postseason playoffs and Super Bowl happening afterwards.

            We can happily pick up this thread for next year's draft.

            Comment


              #7
              NFL 2017

              Cesar Rodriguez wrote:
              Originally posted by Guy Profumo
              Off to a flying start as Colin [strike]Tell[/strike] Kaepernick decides not to salute a man's hat, or something.

              http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37205032
              It really has been quite the eye opener to read social media regarding this in the past couple days.

              It's pathetic how people talk of the flag and the anthem as symbols of freedom yet when someone chooses to exercise that freedom by not observing the anthem in the traditional fashion they are trashed for doing so. Not standing for the anthem, oh the humanity.

              The truly scary part though is the extent to which the anthem and the flag are synonymous with the military. Inextricable to the point that Colin's actions are interpreted by some as an affront to veterans. I find this line of thinking disturbing because it supposes that soldiers have some sort of monopoly on patriotism and and that implied in any criticism of the US is a disdain for them and their sacrifices. It's a really tacky and transparent way of trying to thwart dissent but alas its gets real traction amongst the simple minded.
              See also "Channel 4 News", "Jon Snow", and "Poppies".

              Comment


                #8
                NFL 2017

                Reed John wrote:
                It really has been quite the eye opener to read social media regarding this in the past couple days.

                It's pathetic how people talk of the flag and the anthem as symbols of freedom yet when someone chooses to exercise that freedom by not observing the anthem in the traditional fashion they are trashed for doing so. Not standing for the anthem, oh the humanity.

                The truly scary part though is the extent to which the anthem and the flag are synonymous with the military. Inextricable to the point that Colin's actions are interpreted by some as an affront to veterans. I find this line of thinking disturbing because it supposes that soldiers have some sort of monopoly on patriotism and and that implied in any criticism of the US is a disdain for them and their sacrifices. It's a really tacky and transparent way of trying to thwart dissent but alas its gets real traction amongst the simple minded.
                All of this. Well-expressed.

                I don't really want to discuss the response to Kapernick's brave stand because it just makes me sad. People calling him a coward or saying that because he's rich or has a white parent, that he has no standing to speak out about justice. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFS.

                But I'd add that one more sad aspect is the way that these shallow and empty gestures of militarism are not accompanied by any real movement to help veterans or, you know, avoid sending soldiers off to get killed and maimed in the first place.

                So often, "camo jersey day" or whatever is to raise money for private organizations to help veterans. I'm fine with helping veterans - not because they're veterans per se, but because they're in need. But we shouldn't need private organizations passing the hat to help wounded veterans. And some of them are a bit sketchy.

                Really, the NFL is shit. I'm done with it. I'm still sort of interested in college football because it cross-subsidizes the college sports that I really care about. But the NFL has JTS.

                Like, if you read all of Deadspin's series on "Why your team sucks," it's funny at first, but then it's just pathetic and sad, especially when you read the reader contributions. The same themes reappear over and over - such and such player is a thug and or rapist, the GM is an idiot, the fans are stupid rednecks, the fans don't see their own team clearly, the local media is in the tank for the team, the owner is a racist and/or idiot and/or doesn't deserve to be rich, the prices for tickets/beer/parking are outrageous, and the public got fleeced on the stadium deal and/or the stadium we have is terrible. Pretty much all of these apply to every single team in the league. And yet it never occurs to anyone to just not watch.
                Good post Reed.

                I was moved to bump this thread because of an interview I saw with Shaq and another with Ray Lewis. A pair of establishment stooges if ever I saw or heard them.

                It really pisses me off the perception that the military and cops have cornered the market on being American.

                Explain this to me, why is the flag considered more symbolic of police officers than teachers? What about being a cop makes them inherently more patriotic than any good American citizen from any other profession? It's all baloney, propaganda, plain and simple.

                This guy from the comments section absolutely nails it:

                The idea that sitting for the national anthem is directly correlated to a hate for military is just preposterous. There is no argument to connect the sentiment; I can't stand and solute a flag when the people served with protecting us assault and kill us- To a hate for military. The only argument you could make is that it is disrespectful to police, which is exactly why we are even having this conversation about police brutality. Disrespecting a police officer is not a crime, though it gets thousands of people seriously injured, assaulted, arrested... etc. Part of the privilege that comes with living under that flag is the ability to dissent, and anyone who pushed the narrative that you can't object to the idea that people should be killed, beaten or arrested for being disrespectful to a police officer (nonviolently), isn't being patriotic. They're the antithesis of an expression of American values. An example of what unregulated nationalism becomes in fact; Authoritarianism

                Comment


                  #9
                  NFL 2017

                  Cesar Rodriguez wrote:
                  Originally posted by Reed John
                  It really has been quite the eye opener to read social media regarding this in the past couple days.

                  It's pathetic how people talk of the flag and the anthem as symbols of freedom yet when someone chooses to exercise that freedom by not observing the anthem in the traditional fashion they are trashed for doing so. Not standing for the anthem, oh the humanity.

                  The truly scary part though is the extent to which the anthem and the flag are synonymous with the military. Inextricable to the point that Colin's actions are interpreted by some as an affront to veterans. I find this line of thinking disturbing because it supposes that soldiers have some sort of monopoly on patriotism and and that implied in any criticism of the US is a disdain for them and their sacrifices. It's a really tacky and transparent way of trying to thwart dissent but alas its gets real traction amongst the simple minded.
                  All of this. Well-expressed.

                  I don't really want to discuss the response to Kapernick's brave stand because it just makes me sad. People calling him a coward or saying that because he's rich or has a white parent, that he has no standing to speak out about justice. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFS.

                  But I'd add that one more sad aspect is the way that these shallow and empty gestures of militarism are not accompanied by any real movement to help veterans or, you know, avoid sending soldiers off to get killed and maimed in the first place.

                  So often, "camo jersey day" or whatever is to raise money for private organizations to help veterans. I'm fine with helping veterans - not because they're veterans per se, but because they're in need. But we shouldn't need private organizations passing the hat to help wounded veterans. And some of them are a bit sketchy.

                  Really, the NFL is shit. I'm done with it. I'm still sort of interested in college football because it cross-subsidizes the college sports that I really care about. But the NFL has JTS.

                  Like, if you read all of Deadspin's series on "Why your team sucks," it's funny at first, but then it's just pathetic and sad, especially when you read the reader contributions. The same themes reappear over and over - such and such player is a thug and or rapist, the GM is an idiot, the fans are stupid rednecks, the fans don't see their own team clearly, the local media is in the tank for the team, the owner is a racist and/or idiot and/or doesn't deserve to be rich, the prices for tickets/beer/parking are outrageous, and the public got fleeced on the stadium deal and/or the stadium we have is terrible. Pretty much all of these apply to every single team in the league. And yet it never occurs to anyone to just not watch.
                  Good post Reed.

                  I was moved to bump this thread because of an interview I saw with Shaq and another with Ray Lewis. A pair of establishment stooges if ever I saw or heard them.

                  It really pisses me off the perception that the military and cops have cornered the market on being American.

                  Explain this to me, why is the flag considered more symbolic of police officers than teachers? What about being a cop makes them inherently more patriotic than any good American citizen from any other profession? It's all baloney, propaganda, plain and simple.

                  This guy from the comments section absolutely nails it:

                  The idea that sitting for the national anthem is directly correlated to a hate for military is just preposterous. There is no argument to connect the sentiment; I can't stand and solute a flag when the people served with protecting us assault and kill us- To a hate for military. The only argument you could make is that it is disrespectful to police, which is exactly why we are even having this conversation about police brutality. Disrespecting a police officer is not a crime, though it gets thousands of people seriously injured, assaulted, arrested... etc. Part of the privilege that comes with living under that flag is the ability to dissent, and anyone who pushed the narrative that you can't object to the idea that people should be killed, beaten or arrested for being disrespectful to a police officer (nonviolently), isn't being patriotic. They're the antithesis of an expression of American values. An example of what unregulated nationalism becomes in fact; Authoritarianism
                  There's a better argument for believing police protect "our freedom" than there is for 95% of the military. Because crime, especially if it's rampant, really is a major threat to people's every day real-live freedoms (as opposed to the vague bullshit flag-waving eagle-tatoo freedom that the right champions). Where there is no rule of law, there won't be peace for very long. Ask anyone who has lived in a place with no law enforcement or where law enforcement is hopelessly bent.

                  Same for other "first responders," as the current lingo goes. Although, of course, firefighters don't usually carry guns or shoot people.

                  So when the police are run properly by democratically elected politicians and serve everyone fairly, they promote the common good. And that does happen in many communities in America.

                  But when they're used to oppress people on behalf of those politicians and the people who vote them in, they do the opposite.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    NFL 2017

                    NFL confirms today that the number of London fixtures will increase again, to four in 2017.

                    With this being half of the number of regular season home games a franchise plays, there could be a lot riding on these selling out. But, as I hinted on the 2016 thread, the UK and European fanbase for NFL may or may not rally around the Euro Jags when they currently all have their own favourite teams.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      NFL 2017

                      I wonder if the NFL is thinking that they might be able to get a variant of the Sun Belt approach to hockey to work.

                      That approach basically accepts that it will take time for a team to develop a deep fan base of its own, but that they can be supplemented by fans of other teams, including both those who have relocated from traditional markets and those who are visiting or "wintering" in more pleasant climes. Vegas is the latest franchise to go for this model, though the serious corporate support they've had from casinos would likely have to be taken up by City firms. It is also worth noting that the model has struggled in Arizona and Florida, and that part of its attraction is that tickets there are much cheaper than they are in Canada, which is unlikely to be the case with London. Then there are the obvious differences between selling 20,000 seats for 40 games vs. 80,000 for ten games. One wonders if the kind of long distance day tripping one gets for BRCs would ever be meaningful for gridiron.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        NFL 2017

                        I noticed that Britain has its own league with three tiers as well as university teams, so there's obviously a small hardcore of interest in the game. Britain isn't really that big so I imagine fans would be willing to come from all over the blessed plot to games and even from Germany, Scotland, Ireland, etc. It's not so far to go for a weekend.

                        Not a 60,000 worth, but enough to create some atmosphere that will encourage others to come. Just like every MLS team started with about 100 people making 90% of the noise.

                        And a few Americans will come over to see their team and make a vacation out of it.

                        They should name the team the Kings of England or something like that rather than the London whatever. I suspect people in Manchester don't want to root for a team called London.

                        The bigger problem is running the team itself. It would probably have to have a practice facility in the US and Britain and shuttle back and forth. It's doable, but it might be a disadvantage in both preparing for games and recruiting free-agents. On the other hand, London is a fun place for young rich people to live. Better than Jacksonville or Cleveland, among others, I'd suspect, so that would help attract players.

                        I suspect if they ever get the new supersonic jet worked out, there will be multiple teams in Europe.

                        The NFL could also consider a massive realignment. Break-up the old NFC/AFC completely and go totally East vs West to cut down on travel and ensure nobody on the West coast has to go to Europe during the regular season and vice versa.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          NFL 2017

                          The NFL London Games 2017:
                          Baltimore Ravens vs. Jacksonville Jaguars
                          New Orleans Saints vs. Miami Dolphins
                          Minnesota Vikings vs. Cleveland Browns
                          Arizona Cardinals vs. Los Angeles Rams

                          No surprise to see the Jags back again of course. Mixed reaction on the NFL UK Facebook comments; many are delighted to be getting 8 of the 32 teams next year, and pointing out that there are a few teams in there who might be contenders in 2017. Others noting that London has never had Seahawks and Packers and that it's not the strongest lineup.

                          Well, duh.

                          Good way to test the water for expansion, though. If these four fixtures sell out, you'd imagine anything would.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            NFL 2017

                            I'd be somewhat concerned about competitiveness.

                            Right now, only Saints/Dolphins seems to feature reasonably matched teams.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              NFL 2017

                              They don't want to put an attractive match-up in the morning (over here) timeslot when it could get much better ratings in the late afternoon or evening.

                              But this is like asking American soccer fans to shell out top dollar to see Swansea vs Crystal Palace.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                NFL 2017

                                Oh my eyes, my eyes!

                                That X-Box green kit the Seahawks are wearing is seriously evil.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  NFL 2017

                                  Re: Dak
                                  What's impressed me to no end is how accurate he is with 5-15 yard throws. He won't beat you deep like Rodgers or Brady, but with his scrambling and running he has been absolutely brilliant in moving the chains on time-consuming drives. He better hope the Giants lose their wild-card game, however.

                                  Re: Oakland
                                  I'm just hoping they get the #1 seed and the Pats have to go there for a playoff game. A mirror image to the Tuck Rule with the young up-and-comer against the Rich Gannon-With-More-Rings-And-Giselle.

                                  Re: AFC South H-Town vs Nashville Johnny Cashville
                                  It's safe to say Marcus Mariotta is better than I thought he'd be.

                                  Re: Winston and Mariotta
                                  It's safe to say they're better than I thought they'd be.

                                  Re: Steelers and Bengals
                                  Last I checked the Bengals were up 16-3 at home and ripping up Terrible Towels. Must've been great for them to get revenge for the Burfict Game they pitched last year in the playoffs.

                                  Re: Pats-Broncos
                                  Say what you will about Peyton's robot neck and way past sell-by date of his throwing elbow, the Broncos D still held the Pats to 16. Only this time they scored 3 instead of 18.

                                  Re: Ryan Brothers
                                  At least their friend won the electoral vote.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    NFL 2017

                                    The NFL as an organization really does try to do everything it can to take the fun out of the game. A flag and 10 Yards for Elliott jumping into the Salvation Army kettle?

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      NFL 2017

                                      I was thinking of taping an E.Elliott picture to a fiver to drop in a bucket at my local supermarket.

                                      It will be interesting to see if donations go up in Dallas.

                                      I'll be in the dome for Saints-Bucs this weekend.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        NFL 2017

                                        I messed things up by bumping this thread, didn't I?

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          NFL 2017

                                          Oh.

                                          Yeah.

                                          I suppose the 5 people who frequent this thread will never forgive you.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            NFL 2017

                                            Who kidnapped the Seahawks squad and substituted this set of shop window mannequins?

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Hang on, Beast Mode has turned up at Oakland?!

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                He most certainly has.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Story and pic. Well, this should be fun.

                                                  Comment

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